House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

Previous Next Page 513 1997-98 Volume 231       Tuesday 10 February 1998 The House met at half-past two o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Aberdare, L. Ackner, L. Acton, L. Addington, L. Addison, V. Ailesbury, M. Ailsa, M. Airlie, E. Alderdice, L. Aldington, L. Alexander of Tunis, E. Alexander of Weedon, L. Allen of Abbeydale, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Alport, L. Amos, B. Ampthill, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Annaly, L. Annan, L. Archer of Sandwell, L. Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Avebury, L. Baldwin of Bewdley, E. Bassam of Brighton, L. Bath and Wells, Bp. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Bellwin, L. Beloff, L. Belstead, L. Berkeley, L. Biddulph, L. Biffen, L. Birdwood, L. Blaker, L. Blatch, B. Blease, L. Bledisloe, V. Blyth, L. Boardman, L. Borrie, L. Boston of Faversham, L. Bowness, L. Bradford, E. Braine of Wheatley, L. Bramall, L. Braybrooke, L. Brentford, V. Bridgeman, V. Bridges, L. Brightman, L. Brigstocke, B. Broadbridge, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Brookeborough, V. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Broughshane, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Bruntisfield, L. Burlison, L. Burnham, L. Butterfield, L. Butterworth, L. Byford, B. Cadman, L. Caithness, E. Calverley, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Canterbury, Abp. Carew, L. Carlisle, E. Carlisle of Bucklow, L. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carnock, L. Carter, L. Cavendish of Furness, L. Chalfont, L. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chesham, L. Chichester, Bp. Clancarty, E. Clanwilliam, E. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Clinton-Davis, L. Cockfield, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Coleraine, L. Colville of Culross, V. Colwyn, L. Cope of Berkeley, L. Courtown, E. Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L. Cox, B. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Cranborne, V. Crathorne, L. Crickhowell, L. Cuckney, L. Cullen of Ashbourne, L. Darcy de Knayth, B. David, B. Davidson, V. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Denbigh, E. Denham, L. Denton of Wakefield, B. Desai, L. Diamond, L. Dilhorne, V. Dixon, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Dundee, E. Durham, Bp. Eatwell, L. Effingham, E. Elibank, L. Elis-Thomas, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Emerton, B. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Exmouth, V. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fitt, L. Flather, B. Flowers, L. Fookes, B. Freyberg, L. Gage, V. Gainford, L. Gallacher, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Garel-Jones, L. Geddes, L. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. Gillmore of Thamesfield, L. Gilmour of Craigmillar, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Glentoran, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Gormanston, V. Goschen, V. Gould of Potternewton, B. Grantchester, L. Gray of Contin, L. Greenway, L. Grey, E. Grimston of Westbury, L. Halsbury, E. Hamwee, B. Hardie, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardwicke, E. Hardy of Wath, L. Harlech, L. Harmar-Nicholls, L. Harris of Greenwich, L. Harrowby, E. Haskel, L. Hattersley, L. Hayhoe, L. Page 514 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Hayman, B. Hayter, L. Healey, L. Henderson of Brompton, L. Henley, L. Higgins, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hogg, B. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Holderness, L. HolmPatrick, L. Home, E. Hooson, L. Hope of Craighead, L. Howe, E. Howell, L. Howell of Guildford, L. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Hunt of Wirral, L. Huntingdon, E. Hurd of Westwell, L. Hylton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Inchcape, E. Inglewood, L. Ironside, L. Islwyn, L. Iveagh, E. Jacobs, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jellicoe, E. Jenkins of Putney, L. Johnston of Rockport, L. Jopling, L. Kenilworth, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kilbracken, L. Kilpatrick of Kincraig, L. Kimball, L. Kingsland, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kintore, E. Kirkhill, L. Knight of Collingtree, B. Laing of Dunphail, L. Lang of Monkton, L. Lauderdale, E. Lawrence, L. Lawson of Blaby, L. Leathers, V. Leicester, Bp. Leigh, L. Lichfield, Bp. Lincoln, Bp. Lindsay, E. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Liverpool, E. Lockwood, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Long, V. Longford, E. Lowry, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Ludford, B. Luke, L. Lyell, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. McConnell, L. Macfarlane of Bearsden, L. McFarlane of Llandaff, B. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Mackie of Benshie, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNair, L. McNally, L. Maddock, B. Mallalieu, B. Manton, L. Mar, C. Mar and Kellie, E. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Mayhew of Twysden, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Merrivale, L. Mersey, V. Meston, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Milverton, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monckton of Brenchley, V. Monk Bretton, L. Monkswell, L. Monson, L. Montagu of Beaulieu, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Moran, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Mountgarret, V. Moyne, L. Moynihan, L. Munster, E. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Napier of Magdâla, L. Nelson, E. Newall, L. Newby, L. Newton of Braintree, L. Nicholson of Winterbourne, B. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Norrie, L. Northbourne, L. Northesk, E. Norton, L. O’Cathain, B. Ogmore, L. Onslow of Woking, L. Orme, L. Oxford, Bp. Oxfuird, V. Palmer, L. Park of Monmouth, B. Parry, L. Patten, L. Paul, L. Peel, E. Pender, L. Perry of Southwark, B. Perth, E. Peston, L. Peyton of Yeovil, L. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Plummer of St. Marylebone, L. Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Quinton, L. Quirk, L. Radnor, E. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rankeillour, L. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Rea, L. Redesdale, L. Rees, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renwick, L. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. Ripon, Bp. Roberts of Conwy, L. Robson of Kiddington, B. Rochester, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Romney, E. Rosslyn, E. Rotherwick, L. Rowallan, L. Runcie, L. Russell-Johnston, L. Ryder of Wensum, L. Sainsbury, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandberg, L. Sanderson of Bowden, L. Sandford, L. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selkirk of Douglas, L. Sempill, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Shaughnessy, L. Shepherd, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Shrewsbury, E. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Simpson of Dunkeld, L. Skelmersdale, L. Slim, V. Page 515 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Smith, L. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Soper, L. Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L. Southwell, Bp. Spens, L. Stallard, L. Steyn, L. Stodart of Leaston, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Stone of Blackheath, L. Strabolgi, L. Strathclyde, L. Sudeley, L. Suffield, L. Swansea, L. Swinfen, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Taylor of Warwick, L. Tebbit, L. Tenby, V. Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Thomas of Swynnerton, L. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Trumpington, B. Turner of Camden, B. Ullswater, V. Varley, L. Vivian, L. Waddington, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Wakefield, Bp. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Coslany, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Walton of Detchant, L. Warnock, B. Watson of Invergowrie, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Westbury, L. Wharton, B. Whitelaw, V. Whitty, L. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winchester, Bp. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. Wise, L. Wright of Richmond, L. Young, B. Young of Old Scone, B. PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Chichester. Judicial Business 1. Credit Lyonnais Nederland NV (now known as Generale Bank Nederland NV) (Appellants) v. Export Credits Guarantee Department (Respondents) (England) (lodged 9th February)—The appeal of Generale Bank Nederland NV was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 24th March next. 2. Barrett (A.P.) (Appellant) v. London Borough of Enfield (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Keith Trevor Barrett was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 24th March next. 3. Director of Public Prosecutions (Respondent) v. Jones and another (Appellants) (On Appeal from a Divisional Court of the Queen’s Bench Division)—The appeal of Margaret Jones and Richard Lloyd was presented and ordered to be prosecuted subject to the procedures applicable thereto. 4. Berry (Petitioner) v. Berry (Respondent) (lodged 27th August)—The petition of Carey Laraine Berry praying for leave to appeal was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee. 5. Shine (Petitioner) v. London Borough of Tower Hamlets (Respondents) (lodged 4th November)—The petition of Avrom Shine praying for leave to appeal was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee. 6. Abbey National plc (Respondents) v. McCann (A.P.) (Petitioner) (Northern Ireland)—The petition of Robert McCann praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged. 7. Regina v. Jeffries and Chalkley (Petitioner)—The petition of Tony Michael Chalkley praying for an extension of time within which the petition may be lodged and for leave to appeal in accordance with the Criminal Appeal Act 1968, was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 8. Regina v. Bow Street Magistrates Court and others (Respondents) ex parte Quentin (Petitioner)—The petition of Gerd Quentin praying for an extension of time within which the petition may be lodged and for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960, was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 9. Appeal Committee—The 50th Report was made; the Appeal Committee reported that they had met and had heard Counsel; the Report was agreed to and the following Orders were made: Clare (Appellant) v. Mirror Group Newspapers and others (Respondents)—That the petition of the appellant, praying that the appeal be restored without giving security for costs, be dismissed. Page 516 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Birmingham City Council (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)— Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Lincoln City Council (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)— Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Mayor etc. of the London Borough of Southwark and others (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)— Kleinwort Benson Limited (Petitioners) v. Mayor etc. of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea and others (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)— (Consolidated appeals)— That the application of the respondents for leave to introduce a new point be granted and that the point be set out in the Statement of Facts and Issues. Iberotravel Limited (Respondents) v. Pallas Leasing (Number 32) Limited (formerly Copymore (OA) Rentals Limited) (Petitioners) and others—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents the costs of the petition, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. 10. Appeal Committee—The 51st Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made: Shepherd and another (Petitioners) v. Secretary of State for the Environment and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d), and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. International Credit & Investment Company Overseas Limited and others (Respondents) v. Adham and others and Djouhri and another (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d), and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. Fitzpatrick (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. Sterling Housing Association Limited (Respondents)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 24th February next. Regina v. Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards (Respondent) ex parte Fayed (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d), and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. Berry (Petitioner) v. Berry (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondent be at liberty to apply for his costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d), and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. Shine (Petitioner) v. London Borough of Tower Hamlets (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused. Papers 11. Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table: Tobacco Advertising—Government response to the First Report of the House of Commons Health Committee, on Tobacco Advertising and the Proposed EC Directive. (3859) 12. Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Reports by: (i) The Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Agriculture, Environment and Fisheries in Scotland— (ii) The Secretary of State for Wales— (iii) The Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food—   on proceedings under the Sea Fisheries (Shellfish) Act 1967, laid under that Act; 2. Report by the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland on the Department of Education Northern Ireland: Provision of Initial Teacher Training, laid under the Audit (Northern Ireland) Order 1987; 3. Amendment No. 18 to the Territorial Army Regulations 1978, laid under the Reserve Forces Act 1996. Select Committee Report 13. Statutory Instruments—The 22nd Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments: Page 517 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top   Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Re-rating and National Insurance Fund Payments) Order 1998;   Draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 1998;   Draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 1998;   Draft Social Security (Incapacity for Work) (General) Amendment Regulations 1998; it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 68) Public Business 14. Crime and Disorder Bill [HL]—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed for a statement; the House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed after Clause 17 stood part. The House was adjourned at twenty-six minutes past midnight in the morning of Wednesday 11th February till later the same day, half-past two o’clock in the afternoon. DIVISION CRIME AND DISORDER BILL It was moved by the Earl of Mar and Kellie, in Clause 18, page 14, line 30 to leave out (“16,”) and insert (“12,”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided: Contents.............45 Not-Contents.............107 *The Tellers reported 107 votes; the Clerks recorded 106 names. CONTENTS Anelay of St. Johns, B. Bellwin, L. Belstead, L. Braybrooke, L. Brentford, V. Carnegy of Lour, B. Clanwilliam, E. Davidson, V. Dixon-Smith, L. Dundee, E. Fookes, B. Gainford, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Harlech, L. Henley, L. [Teller] Higgins, L. Holderness, L. Inglewood, L. McConnell, L. Mackay of Drumadoon, L. Macleod of Borve, B. Manton, L. Marlesford, L. Marsh, L. Masham of Ilton, B. Merrivale, L. Monson, L. Mountgarret, V. Nelson, E. Newall, L. O’Cathain, B. Palmer, L. Peel, E. Peyton of Yeovil, L. Rees, L. Renton, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandford, L. Selkirk of Douglas, L. Stodart of Leaston, L. Strathclyde, L. [Teller] Suffield, L. Swinfen, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Wharton, B. NOT-CONTENTS Acton, L. Allen of Abbeydale, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Bassam of Brighton, L. Berkeley, L. Birdwood, L. Blyth, L. Borrie, L. Bradford, E. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Burlison, L. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carter, L. [Teller] Charteris of Amisfield, L. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Clinton-Davis, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Dean of Beswick, L. Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B. Dixon, L. Donoughue, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fitt, L. Gallacher, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Gould of Potternewton, B. Halsbury, E. Hardie, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Haskel, L. Hattersley, L. Hayman, B. Healey, L. Henderson of Brompton, L. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Howell, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Huntingdon, E. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Islwyn, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Kilbracken, L. Page 518 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Kilpatrick of Kincraig, L. Lockwood, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] Mason of Barnsley, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Morris of Manchester, L. Moyne, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nicol, B. Orme, L. Parry, L. Peston, L. Pitkeathley, B. Prys-Davies, L. Quinton, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Rea, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Sefton of Garston, L. Serota, B. Sewel, L. Shepherd, L. Shore of Stepney, L. Shrewsbury, E. Simon, V. Smith of Gilmorehill, B. Stallard, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Strabolgi, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Tenby, V. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Turner of Camden, B. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Coslany, L. Walton of Detchant, L. Watson of Invergowrie, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L.