House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

 Lords Journals
Contents
Index
Alphabetical list of Lords
Minutes and Order Papers

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Page 626

1997-98

Volume 231      

Thursday 5 March 1998

The House met at three o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alderdice, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Briggs, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Byron, L.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
 Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalfont, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Cranbrook, E.
Crathorne, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Denman, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Derwent, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dunleath, L.
 Dunrossil, V.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erne, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Haig, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hamwee, B.
Hanson, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardwicke, E.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hindlip, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.

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Holderness, L.
Hollick, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Home, E.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Huntingdon, E.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Keyes, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kitchener, E.
Knollys, V.
Lane, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lestor of Eccles, B.
Lichfield, Bp.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
London, Bp.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lytton, E.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
 McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Manchester, Bp.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monson, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moran, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northfield, L.
Norton, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Pym, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
 Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Seafield, E.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Serota, B.
Shannon, E.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Spens, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.

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Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tweeddale, M.
Ullswater, V.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
 Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilberforce, L.
 Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.

Judicial Business

1.Foskett (suing on his own behalf and on behalf of all other purchasers of plots of land at Mount Eden, Herrado do Cerro Alto Diogo, Martins, Algarve, Portugal) (Appellant) v. McKeown and others (Repondents)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 6th April next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
2.Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis (Appellant) v. Reeves (Joint administratrix of the Estate of Martin Lynch, deceased) (A.P.) (Respondent)—The respondent’s legal aid certificate was lodged.

Papers

3.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Defence—“Defence Diversification: Getting the most out of defence technology”: Government proposals.

(3861)

4.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Public Telecommunication System Designation (LCI Telecom UK Limited) Order 1998—(508)
(ii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Telecom Ireland Limited) Order 1998—(509)
(iii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Primetec (UK) Limited) Order 1998—(507)
(iv)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Sonic Telecommunications International Limited) Order 1998—(506)
(v)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Telegroup UK Limited) Order 1998—(505)
 laid under the Telecommunications Act 1984;
2.Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Amendment) Order 1998, laid under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990;
 (462)
3.Police Information Technology Organisation (Additional Bodies) Order 1998, laid under the Police Act 1997;
 (411)
4.Courses for Drink-Drive Offenders (Designation of District) Order (Northern Ireland) 1998, laid under the Road Traffic Offenders (Northern Ireland) Order 1996;
 (—)
5.Wireless Telegraphy (Television Licence Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 1998, laid under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949;
 (558)
6.Building Societies (Accounts and Related Provisions) Regulations 1998, laid under the Building Societies Act 1986.
 (504)
5.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Licences granted by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to—
(i)Telecom Ireland Limited—
(ii)Sonic Telecommunications International Limited—
(iii)Telegroup UK Limited—
(iv)LCI Telecom UK Limited—
(v)Primetec (UK) Limited—
 laid under the Telecommunications Act 1984;

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2.Accounts for 1996–97 of the National Board for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting for Scotland, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Nurses, Midwives and Health Visitors Act 1997;
3.Accounts for 1996–97 of Greenwich Hospital and the Travers Foundation, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Greenwich Hospital Act 1865.

Private Business

6.London Local Authorities Bill [HL]—The bill was reported from the Select Committee with amendments and re-committed to an Unopposed Bill Committee.

Public Business

7.Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) (Amendment) Bill [HL]—A bill to amend section 12 of the Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) Act 1990 was presented by the Lord Evans of Parkside, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 85)
8.Competition Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; an amendment was agreed to (see division list 1); an amendment was disagreed to (see division list 2); amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was moved and, on question, tellers for the contents not having been appointed, the amendment was disagreed to pursuant to Standing Order 51; a privilege amendment was agreed to; then, after debate, the bill was passed and sent to the Commons.
9.Northern Ireland (Emergency Provisions) Bill—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed and the bill was reported without amendment.
10.Appropriation (Northern Ireland) Order 1998—It was moved by the Lord Dubs that the draft Order laid before the House on 12th February be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
11.Financial Provisions (Northern Ireland) Order 1998—It was moved by the Lord Dubs that the draft Order laid before the House on 16th December 1997 be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned at half-past midnight in the morning of Friday 6th March
to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.

DIVISIONS

Division No. 1

COMPETITION BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord McNally, in Clause 1, page 1, line 14, at end to insert—

(“( ) Paragraphs 5 to 9 of Schedule 13 make particular transitional provision in relation to the Restrictive Trade Practices Act 1976 and the Resale Prices Act 1976.”);

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............138

Not-Contents.............81

CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Alderdice, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bowness, L.
 Bridgeman, V.
Brigstocke, B.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Clanwilliam, E.
Coleridge, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Cranbrook, E.
 Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Davidson, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Denman, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Elles, B.
Erne, E.
Ezra, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gainford, L.

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Gisborough, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Haig, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hayhoe, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Hughes, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Kenyon, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kitchener, E.
Leigh, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Long, V.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
McNally, L. [Teller]
Manchester, Bp.
 Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Mottistone, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Northesk, E.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Quinton, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
 Russell-Johnston, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L. [Teller]
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Trenchard, V.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Windlesham, L.
Wise, L.
Young, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gallacher, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Hanworth, V.
 Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kilbracken, L.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Mallalieu, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nicol, B.
Northfield, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Paul, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
 Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal)
Sandwich, E.
Serota, B.
Shannon, E.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.

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Division No. 2

COMPETITION BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord McNally, in Clause 2, page 2, line 23, at end to insert (“and has, or is likely to have, a significant effect on competition within the United Kingdom”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............22

Not-Contents.............92

CONTENTS

Ailsa, M.
Berners, B.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Courtown, E. [Teller]
Dixon-Smith, L.
Erne, E.
 Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Holderness, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Kingsland, L. [Teller]
Merrivale, L.
Monson, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
 Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Rawlings, B.
Swansea, L.
Teviot, L.
Trenchard, V.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blyth, L.
Borrie, L.
Burlison, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ezra, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gallacher, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
 Hanworth, V.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kilbracken, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Ludford, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Peston, L.
 Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal)
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.