House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

Previous Next Page 743 1997-98 Volume 231       Monday 20 April 1998 The House met at half-past two o’clock. The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present: Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Ackner, L. Acton, L. Addington, L. Addison, V. Ailesbury, M. Ailsa, M. Aldington, L. Alexander of Tunis, E. Allen of Abbeydale, L. Allenby of Megiddo, V. Ampthill, L. Anelay of St. Johns, B. Annan, L. Archer of Sandwell, L. Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L. Ashbourne, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Astor, V. Astor of Hever, L. Attlee, E. Baker of Dorking, L. Balfour, E. Barnett, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Bath and Wells, Bp. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Belhaven and Stenton, L. Beloff, L. Belstead, L. Berkeley, L. Berners, B. Biddulph, L. Biffen, L. Blackwell, L. Blatch, B. Blease, L. Blyth, L. Boardman, L. Borrie, L. Boston of Faversham, L. Bowness, L. Brabazon of Tara, L. Braine of Wheatley, L. Brightman, L. Brigstocke, B. Broadbridge, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Brooks of Tremorfa, L. Brougham and Vaux, L. Broughshane, L. Bruce of Donington, L. Bruntisfield, L. Burlison, L. Burnham, L. Butterfield, L. Butterworth, L. Cadman, L. Caithness, E. Calverley, L. Campbell of Alloway, L. Campbell of Croy, L. Carlisle, E. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carnegy of Lour, B. Carnock, L. Carter, L. Chalfont, L. Chalker of Wallasey, B. Charteris of Amisfield, L. Chesham, L. Chorley, L. Clancarty, E. Cledwyn of Penrhos, L. Clinton-Davis, L. Cockfield, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Coleraine, L. Coleridge, L. Colville of Culross, V. Colwyn, L. Congleton, L. Constantine of Stanmore, L. Cope of Berkeley, L. Courtown, E. Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L. Craig of Radley, L. Craigavon, V. Cranborne, V. Crickhowell, L. Cross, V. Cullen of Ashbourne, L. Cumberlege, B. Currie of Marylebone, L. Dacre of Glanton, L. Dahrendorf, L. David, B. Davidson, V. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. De Freyne, L. Dean of Harptree, L. Denbigh, E. Denton of Wakefield, B. Desai, L. Dholakia, L. Diamond, L. Dilhorne, V. Dixon, L. Dixon-Smith, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Eatwell, L. Elibank, L. Ellenborough, L. Elles, B. Elliott of Morpeth, L. Elton, L. Erne, E. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Exmouth, V. Ezra, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Falkland, V. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Feldman, L. Fitt, L. Fookes, B. Fraser of Carmyllie, L. Freyberg, L. Gainford, L. Gallacher, L. Gardner of Parkes, B. Garel-Jones, L. Geddes, L. Geraint, L. Gilbert, L. Gilmour of Craigmillar, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Glentoran, L. Goodhart, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Gould of Potternewton, B. Gowrie, E. Graham of Edmonton, L. Gray of Contin, L. Greenway, L. Grey, E. Hacking, L. Halsbury, E. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Harding of Petherton, L. Hardwicke, E. Hardy of Wath, L. Harrowby, E. Haskel, L. Hattersley, L. Hayman, B. Hayter, L. Henley, L. Higgins, L. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Holderness, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Holme of Cheltenham, L. HolmPatrick, L. Home, E. Hooper, B. Hooson, L. Hothfield, L. Howe, E. Howie of Troon, L. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Page 744 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Hunt of Tanworth, L. Hunt of Wirral, L. Huntly, M. Hussey of North Bradley, L. Hutton, L. Hylton-Foster, B. Inglewood, L. Ironside, L. Islwyn, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeffreys, L. Jeger, B. Jenkins of Hillhead, L. Jenkins of Putney, L. Johnston of Rockport, L. Jopling, L. Kenilworth, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Kennet, L. Kilbracken, L. Kilmarnock, L. Kimball, L. Kingsland, L. Kinloss, Ly. Kinnoull, E. Kintore, E. Knight of Collingtree, B. Knollys, V. Lane of Horsell, L. Lang of Monkton, L. Lauderdale, E. Layton, L. Leathers, V. Leigh, L. Linklater of Butterstone, B. Liverpool, E. Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E. Lockwood, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Long, V. Longford, E. Lovell-Davis, L. Lucas, L. Lucas of Chilworth, L. Ludford, B. Luke, L. Lyell, L. McAlpine of West Green, L. McColl of Dulwich, L. McConnell, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L. Macleod of Borve, B. McNair, L. McNally, L. Maddock, B. Mallalieu, B. Malmesbury, E. Mar and Kellie, E. Marlesford, L. Mason of Barnsley, L. Massereene and Ferrard, V. Merlyn-Rees, L. Mersey, V. Meston, L. Methuen, L. Middleton, L. Miller of Hendon, B. Milner of Leeds, L. Milverton, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Molyneaux of Killead, L. Monkswell, L. Monro of Langholm, L. Monson, L. Montagu of Beaulieu, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Monteagle of Brandon, L. Montgomery of Alamein, V. Moore of Wolvercote, L. Moran, L. Morris of Manchester, L. Mottistone, L. Mountevans, L. Mowbray and Stourton, L. Moyne, L. Munster, E. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Murton of Lindisfarne, L. Napier and Ettrick, L. Naseby, L. Nelson, E. Newall, L. Newby, L. Newton of Braintree, L. Nicol, B. Noel-Buxton, L. Norfolk, D. Norrie, L. Northesk, E. O’Cathain, B. Ogmore, L. Onslow of Woking, L. Oppenheim-Barnes, B. Orme, L. Oxfuird, V. Palmer, L. Park of Monmouth, B. Paul, L. Pearson of Rannoch, L. Peel, E. Pender, L. Perry of Walton, L. Peston, L. Peyton of Yeovil, L. Pilkington of Oxenford, L. Pitkeathley, B. Plant of Highfield, L. Platt of Writtle, B. Porter of Luddenham, L. Prior, L. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Pym, L. Quinton, L. Quirk, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rankeillour, L. Rawlings, B. Rawlinson of Ewell, L. Razzall, L. Reay, L. Redesdale, L. Rees, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L. Rennell, L. Renton, L. Renton of Mount Harry, L. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. Rix, L. Roberts of Conwy, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Rogers of Riverside, L. Rosslyn, E. Rotherwick, L. Russell, E. Ryder of Wensum, L. Saint Albans, D. St. Davids, V. St. John of Bletso, L. St. John of Fawsley, L. Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly. Sandberg, L. Sanderson of Bowden, L. Sandford, L. Sandwich, E. Seccombe, B. Sefton of Garston, L. Selkirk of Douglas, L. Sewel, L. Shannon, E. Sharples, B. Shaughnessy, L. Shaw of Northstead, L. Simon, V. Simon of Glaisdale, L. Simon of Highbury, L. Skelmersdale, L. Skidelsky, L. Stallard, L. Stanley of Alderley, L. Steel of Aikwood, L. Stodart of Leaston, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Stone of Blackheath, L. Strabolgi, L. Strathcarron, L. Strathclyde, L. Sudeley, L. Swansea, L. Swinfen, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taverne, L. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Tenby, V. Teviot, L. Teynham, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Gwydir, L. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Thomas of Swynnerton, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Thurlow, L. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Trefgarne, L. Turner of Camden, B. Ullswater, V. Page 745 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Varley, L. Waddington, L. Wade of Chorlton, L. Walker of Doncaster, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Warnock, B. Waterford, M. Watson of Invergowrie, L. Waverley, V. Weatherill, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Westbury, L. Whaddon, L. Wharton, B. Whitty, L. Wigoder, L. Wilcox, B. Williams of Crosby, B. Williams of Elvel, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. Windlesham, L. Winston, L. Wise, L. Woolton, E. Wright of Richmond, L. Wynford, L. Young, B. Young of Old Scone, B. PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells. Judicial Business 1. Platform Home Loans Limited (Appellants) v. Oyston Shipways Limited and others (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Platform Home Loans Limited was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 1st June next. 2. Barry (Appellant) v. Midland Bank Plc (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Jacqueline Barry was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 1st June next. 3. Bruton (A.P.) (Appellant) v. London and Quadrant Housing Trust (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Gary Francis Bruton was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 1st June next. 4. Fitzpatrick (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Sterling Housing Association Limited (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Martin Fitzpatrick was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 1st June next. 5. J A Chapman & Company Limited (Respondents) v. Chios Breeze Marine Company (Petitioners) (lodged 6th April)—The petition of Chios Breeze Marine Company praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 6. Ord and another (A.P.) (Petitioners) v. Belhaven Pubs Limited (substituted by Ascot Holdings Plc) (Respondents) (lodged 7th April)—The petition of Adrian George Ord and Rosemary June Ord praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioners’ legal aid certificates were lodged. 7. London Borough of Hounslow (Petitioners) v. McBride (Respondent)—The petition of the London Borough of Hounslow praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 8. Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Petitioners) v. British Telecommunications Plc (Respondents)—The petition of Commissioners of Customs and Excise praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 9. Holland (Respondent) v. Eagle Star Group Services Limited (Petitioners)—The petition of Eagle Star Group Services Limited praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. 10. Ouanes (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent)—Upon application by the appellant (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the appeal be withdrawn and that there be no order for costs save that the costs of the appellant be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988. 11. Barclays Bank Plc (Appellants) v. Boulter and Boulter (A.P.) (Respondent)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 20th May next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed. 12. McKnight (Her Majesty’s Inspector of Taxes) (Appellant) v. Sheppard (Respondent)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 2nd June next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed. 13. Cook (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Financial Insurance Company Limited (Respondents)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 1st June next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed. Page 746 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Papers 14. Command Papers—The following papers, having been laid before the House by command of Her Majesty on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Northern Ireland—The Belfast Agreement: an agreement reached at the multi-party talks on Northern Ireland; (14th April)   (3883) 2. Antarctica—Exchange of Notes between the United Kingdom and Uruguay concerning the transfer of the hut located in Hope Bay (Bah-úa Esperanza) in the Antarctic Peninsula; (15th April)   (3932) 3. Museums and Libraries—New Library: The People’s Network—Government Response to the report of the Library and Information Commission. (16th April)   (3887) 15. Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 68)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table: Fishing Vessels (Certification of Deck Officers and Engineer Officers) (Amendment) Regulations 1998, laid under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995; 1013 15th April Medicated Feedingstuffs and Feedingstuffs (Zootechnical Products) (Consequential Provisions) Regulations 1998— 1048 15th April Feedingstuffs (Zootechnical Products) Regulations 1998— 1047 15th April Medicated Feedingstuffs Regulations 1998— 1046 15th April Feeding Stuffs (Establishments and Intermediaries) Regulations 1998— 1049 15th April laid under the European Communities Act 1972; Medicines (Exemptions for Merchants in Veterinary Drugs) Order 1998— 1044 15th April Medicines (Sale or Supply) (Miscellaneous Provisions) Amendment Regulations 1998— 1045 15th April laid under the Medicines Act 1968; Gaming Clubs (Hours and Charges) (Amendment) Regulations 1998— 961 17th April Gaming Act (Variation of Monetary Limits) Order 1998— 962 17th April laid under the Gaming Act 1968. 16. Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Draft Northern Ireland Negotiations (Referendum) Order 1998; 2. Draft Northern Ireland (Entry to Negotiations, etc) Act 1996 (Cessation of Section 3) Order 1998. 17. Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Firemen’s Pension Scheme (Amendment) Order 1998, laid under the Fire Services Act 1947;   (1010) 2. (i) Merchant Shipping (Fire Protection: Small Ships) Regulations 1998—   (1011) (ii) Merchant Shipping (Fire Protection: Large Ships) Regulations 1998— (1012) laid under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. 18. Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table: 1. Account of grants and loans to Housing Action Trusts for 1996–97, together with the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Housing Act 1988; 2. Report on concession roads and toll orders in England and Wales for 1997, laid under the New Roads and Street Works Act 1991. Private Business 19. Tamar Bridge Bill—A petition was deposited against the bill on behalf of Transport 2000 Plymouth and District Group (No. 1) by Mr S Joseph. Page 747 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Public Business 20. Social Security Bill—The report was received; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); further consideration on report was adjourned after amendment 38. 21. Sport: Listed events—The Lord Lofthouse of Pontefract asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the report and recommendations of the Advisory Group on Listed Events; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey. The House was adjourned at twenty-nine minutes before ten o’clock till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock. DIVISION SOCIAL SECURITY BILL It was moved by the Lord Goodhart, in Clause 12, page 7, line 41, at end to insert— (“( ) Regulations under subsection (6) above shall provide that— (a) a person’s appeal shall be determined at an oral hearing, unless he requests otherwise; (b) the panel member who constitutes the appeal tribunal or, as the case may be, is its chairman shall order that there be an oral hearing where he believes one to be desirable in the interests of justice, irrespective of the wishes of the person bringing the appeal.”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided: Contents.............34 Not-Contents.............100 CONTENTS Addington, L. Beaumont of Whitley, L. Calverley, L. Carlisle, E. Dacre of Glanton, L. Falkland, V. Geraint, L. Goodhart, L. [Teller] Hooson, L. Ludford, B. McNally, L. Maddock, B. Mar and Kellie, E. Meston, L. Methuen, L. Newby, L. Perry of Walton, L. Razzall, L. Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L. Russell, E. [Teller] Sandberg, L. Steel of Aikwood, L. Thomas of Gresford, L. Thomas of Swynnerton, L. Thomas of Walliswood, B. Thomson of Monifieth, L. Tope, L. Tordoff, L. Ullswater, V. Waddington, L. Wallace of Saltaire, L. Williams of Crosby, B. Winchilsea and Nottingham, E. Wynford, L. NOT-CONTENTS Acton, L. Ampthill, L. Archer of Sandwell, L. Ashley of Stoke, L. Barnett, L. Bassam of Brighton, L. Berkeley, L. Blease, L. Borrie, L. Brooke of Alverthorpe, L. Burlison, L. Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L. Carter, L. Clinton-Davis, L. Cocks of Hartcliffe, L. Coleraine, L. Craig of Radley, L. Currie of Marylebone, L. David, B. Davies of Coity, L. Davies of Oldham, L. Desai, L. Dixon, L. Dormand of Easington, L. Dubs, L. Erroll, E. Evans of Parkside, L. Ewing of Kirkford, L. Falconer of Thoroton, L. Farrington of Ribbleton, B. Fitt, L. Gallacher, L. Gilbert, L. Gladwin of Clee, L. Gordon of Strathblane, L. Graham of Edmonton, L. Hanworth, V. Hardie, L. Hardy of Wath, L. Haskel, L. [Teller] Hattersley, L. Hayman, B. Hilton of Eggardon, B. Hogg of Cumbernauld, L. Hollis of Heigham, B. Hoyle, L. Hughes, L. Hughes of Woodside, L. Hunt of Kings Heath, L. Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor) Islwyn, L. Janner of Braunstone, L. Jay of Paddington, B. Jeger, B. Jenkins of Putney, L. Kennedy of The Shaws, B. Lockwood, B. Lofthouse of Pontefract, L. Lovell-Davis, L. McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller] Mallalieu, B. Mason of Barnsley, L. Merlyn-Rees, L. Milner of Leeds, L. Mishcon, L. Molloy, L. Monkswell, L. Montague of Oxford, L. Page 748 1997-98 Volume 231 Back to top Morris of Manchester, L. Murray of Epping Forest, L. Nicol, B. Orme, L. Palmer, L. Pitkeathley, B. Prys-Davies, L. Puttnam, L. Ramsay of Cartvale, B. Randall of St. Budeaux, L. Rendell of Babergh, B. Renwick of Clifton, L. Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal) Rogers of Riverside, L. Sefton of Garston, L. Sewel, L. Simon, V. Simon of Highbury, L. Stoddart of Swindon, L. Stone of Blackheath, L. Strabolgi, L. Symons of Vernham Dean, B. Taylor of Blackburn, L. Taylor of Gryfe, L. Thomas of Macclesfield, L. Turner of Camden, B. Varley, L. Wedderburn of Charlton, L. Whitty, L. Williams of Mostyn, L. Winston, L. Young of Old Scone, B.