House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

 Lords Journals
Contents
Index
Alphabetical list of Lords
Minutes and Order Papers

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Thursday 7 May 1998

The House met at three o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alanbrooke, V.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashburton, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barber, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
 Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carnock, L.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalfont, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L.
Chichester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
 Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Cranbrook, E.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dundonald, E.
Dunleath, L.
Dunrossil, V.

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Eatwell, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Effingham, E.
Elibank, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erne, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Exeter, Bp.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hambro, L.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardwicke, E.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
 Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inchcape, E.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Keyes, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsdown, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Knollys, V.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lewin, L.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
London, Bp.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lowry, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lytton, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
 Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Methuen, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Nolan, L.
Norrie, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.

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Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ritchie of Dundee, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
 Smith of Clifton, L.
Stallard, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mt. Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swansea, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Terrington, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
 Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warnock, B.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Dartington, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Exeter.

Judicial Business

1.Glasgow City Council and others (Respondents) v. Marshall and others (Petitioners) (Scotland)—The petition of Jessica Marshall, Christina Bolye, Mary Hamilton, Mary Pietryga, Mary Anderson, Carol Ann Campbell, Margaret Sutton-Hibbert and Alexander Morrow praying for leave to present an appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order 1 has expired was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
2.Burridge (Respondent) v. London Borough of Harrow (Petitioners) and others—The petition of the London Borough of Harrow praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
3.In re F (a minor) (1998) (Petitioner) (Northern Ireland) (lodged 16th October)—The petition of the father praying for leave to appeal was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.In re R (a minor) (1998) (Petitioner)—The petition of the father praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee.
5.Appeal Committee—The 70th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made:

Stretch (A.P.) (Petitioner) v. West Dorset District Council (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the costs of the petitioner be taxed in accordance with the Legal Aid Act 1988; and that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(c) and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Piglowska (Petitioner) v. Piglowski (Respondent)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 21st May next.

Soleimany (Respondent) v. Soleimany (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused.

Barrington (Petitioner) v. Colbert and others (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused.

In re F (a minor) (1998) (Petitioner) (Northern Ireland)—That leave to appeal be refused.

In re R (a minor) (1998) (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused.

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Papers

6.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Education (Mandatory Awards) Regulations 1998, laid under the Education Act 1962;
 (1166)
2. (i)Magistrates’ Courts Committees (Merseyside) Amalgamation Order 1998—(1175)
(ii)Magistrates’ Courts Committees (West Midlands) Amalgamation Order 1998—(1176)
 laid under the Justices of the Peace Act 1997;
3.Packaging (Essential Requirements) Regulations 1998, laid under the European Communities Act 1972.
 (1165)
7.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Statements of Guarantee given by the Secretary of State for Health on loans proposed to be raised by:
(i)Surrey and Sussex NHS Trust—
(ii)Kent Ambulance NHS Trust—
(iii)Kent and Canterbury Hospitals NHS Trust—
 laid under the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990;
2.Report for 1997 of the Ancient Monuments Board for Scotland, laid under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979.

Public Business

8.Social Security Bill—The bill was read a third time; amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; an amendment was agreed to (see division list); amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; then, after debate, the bill was passed and returned to the Commons with amendments.
9.Northern Ireland (Elections) Bill—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed and the bill was reported without amendment; the report was received; then (Standing Order 44 having been dispensed with) the bill was read a third time and passed.
10.Social Security Amendment (New Deal) Regulations 1998—It was moved by the Lord Whitty that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 9th March be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
11.Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters (ECC Report)—It was moved by the Lord Hoffmann that this House take note of the Report of the European Communities Committee on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters (14th Report, HL Paper 72); after debate, the motion was agreed to.
12.Royal Assent—The Lord Speaker (Viscount Allenby of Megiddo) notified the Queen’s Assent to the following Act:
Northern Ireland (Elections) Actc. 12
13.Council Tax Benefit (General) Amendment Regulations 1998—It was moved by the Earl Russell that an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty praying that the Regulations (S.I. 1998/911), laid before the House on 30th March, be annulled; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.

The House was adjourned at ten minutes past eight o’clock
to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.

DIVISION

SOCIAL SECURITY BILL

It was moved by the Lord Higgins, in Clause 51, page 35, line 39, to leave out (“subsection”) and insert (“subsections”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............146

Not-Contents.............115

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CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Attlee, E.
Balfour, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barber, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Belstead, L.
Berners, B.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnock, L.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L.
Clanwilliam, E.
Coleridge, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Davidson, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Downshire, M.
 Eden of Winton, L.
Effingham, E.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erne, E.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gisborough, L.
Glentoran, L.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Ilchester, E.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jopling, L.
Kenyon, L.
Kimball, L.
Knollys, V.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Leigh, L.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Long, V.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Mersey, V.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Mountevans, L.
 Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Northesk, E.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Parkinson, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prior, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Seccombe, B.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Stanley of Alderley, L.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller]
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Weatherill, L.
Westbury, L.
Wilcox, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wise, L.
Young, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Avebury, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
 Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Clancarty, E.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
 Dholakia, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Exeter, Bp.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.

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Graham of Edmonton, L.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L. [Teller]
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Levy, L.
 Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Monkswell, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Palmer, L.
Peston, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal)
 Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Russell, E.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Stallard, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.