House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

 Lords Journals
Contents
Index
Alphabetical list of Lords
Minutes and Order Papers

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Tuesday 14 July 1998

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Airlie, E.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alport, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
 Birdwood, L.
Birkett, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blake, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Broughshane, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Buccleuch and Queensberry, D.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butterfield, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
 Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chandos, V.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Clwyd, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Crook, L.

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Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
De L’Isle, V.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Derwent, L.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Digby, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dudley, E.
Dundonald, E.
Eatwell, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erne, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenamara, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
 Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths, L.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hacking, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardwicke, E.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Home, E.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Huntingdon, E.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hutchinson of Lullington, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchyra, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Jopling, L.
 Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kimball, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood, L.
Kitchener, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Knutsford, V.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Limerick, E.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Macaulay of Bragar, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mersey, V.
Methuen, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Minto, E.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monson, L.

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Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mountgarret, V.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Napier of Magdâla, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Onslow, E.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Perth, E.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Pym, L.
Quirk, L.
Radnor, E.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
 Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L.
Ritchie of Dundee, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodger of Earlsferry, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Romney, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Scanlon, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stockton, E.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
 Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedgwood, L.
Wemyss and March, E.
Westbury, L.
Westmorland, E.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Wolfson, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

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PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.

1.Oath—Donald Lord Macaulay of Bragar took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Salem (A.P.) (Appellant) (lodged 13th July) (England)—The appeal of Fathi Salem Salem was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 25th August next.
3.Gregory (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Portsmouth City Council (Respondents) (England)—The appeal of Terence Raymond Gregory was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 25th August next.
4.McKnight (Her Majesty’s Inspector of Taxes) (Appellant) v. Sheppard (Respondent)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.
5.Modahl (A.P.) (Appellant) v. British Athletic Federation Limited (Respondents)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 26th August next or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

Papers

6.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.BBC—Report and Accounts for 1997–98;
 (—)
2.Finance—Modern Public Services for Britain: Investing in Reform, Comprehensive Spending Review: New Public Spending Plans 1999–2002.
 (4011)
7.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Jobseeker’s Allowance (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1998, laid under the Jobseeker’s Act 1995;
 (1698)
2.Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (City of Edinburgh) Designation Order 1998, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1991;
 (1539)
3.Children (Performances) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 1998, laid under the Children and Young Persons Act 1933;
 (1678)
4.Wireless Telegraphy (Licence Charges) (Amendment No. 3) Regulations 1998, laid under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1998.
 (1703)
8.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report and Accounts for 1997–98 of the Highlands and Islands Airports Limited, laid under the Civil Aviation Act 1982;
2.Report for 1998 of the Data Protection Registrar, laid under the Data Protection Act 1984;
3.Report for 1997–98 of the Horserace Betting Levy Board and Horserace Totalisator Board, laid under the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act 1963;
4.Marriage, Divorce and Adoption Statistics for 1995, laid under the Registration Service Act 1953;
5.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Crown Estate Commissioners, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Crown Estate Act 1961;
6.Accounts for 1997–98 of the Highlands & Islands Enterprise Network, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Enterprise and New Towns (Scotland) Act 1990;
7.Report and Accounts for 1997–98 of the Meteorological Office, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Government Trading Funds Act 1973;
8.Report and Accounts, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, for 1997–98 of the:
(i)Information Technology Services Agency—
(ii)Contributions Agency—
(iii)Benefits Agency—
(iv)Child Support Agency—
(v)War Pensions Agency—

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(vi)Defence Postal and Courier Services Agency—
laid under the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act 1921;
9. Accounts for 1997–98 of the Scottish Tourist Board, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Development of Tourism Act 1969.

Select Committee Report

9.Statutory Instruments—The 41st Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments; it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 131)

Private Business

10.Shrewsbury and Atcham Borough Council Bill [HL]—The bill was returned from the Commons agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

Public Business

11.Teaching and Higher Education Bill [HL]—The bill was returned from the Commons earlier this day with the Lords amendment in lieu of words left out of the bill disagreed to, with a reason for such disagreement; the Commons reason was printed under Standing Order 48 (HL Bill 144); the Commons reason was considered forthwith; it was moved that the House do not insist on its amendment in lieu to which the Commons have disagreed and do propose an amendment in lieu thereof; an amendment to the proposed amendment was moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; then the original motion was agreed to, and the bill was returned to the Commons with an amendment.
12.Scotland Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed.
13.Provincial repertory theatres—The Viscount Montgomery of Alamein asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any proposals for reviving provincial repertory theatres; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey.
14.Scotland Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the House was resumed after amendment 121.

The House was adjourned at a quarter-before one o’clock
in the morning of Wednesday 15th July till later the same day,
half-past two o’clock in the afternoon.

DIVISION

SCOTLAND BILL

It was moved by the Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish, in clause 4, page 3, line 12, at end to insert (“, and the regional returning officer shall publish the list at the earliest opportunity”); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents.............59

Not-Contents.............85

CONTENTS

Balfour, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belstead, L.
Berners, B.
Blatch, B.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Carnegy of Lour, B.
 Carnock, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clanwilliam, E.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Cranborne, V.
Cross, V.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
 Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundonald, E.
Fookes, B.
Harmsworth, L.
Hemphill, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Kintore, E.
Lindsay, E.
Lyell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.

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Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mersey, V.
Minto, E.
Monson, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Mountevans, L.
Northesk, E.
Onslow, E.
 Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Prior, L.
Radnor, E.
Rawlings, B.
Rowallan, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
 Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Sharples, B.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stair, E.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller]
Trefgarne, L.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wise, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Borrie, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carew, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gallacher, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
 Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Haskel, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Levy, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
 Montague of Oxford, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L. (Lord Privy Seal)
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Sewel, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winston, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.