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House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)


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Page 1120

1997-98

Volume 231      

Wednesday 14 October 1998

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Abercorn, D.
Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashburton, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barber, L.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Barnard, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bath, M.
Bath and Wells, Bp.
Bathurst, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bell, L.
Beloff, L.
Berkeley, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Birmingham, Bp.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blackwell, L.
Blakenham, V.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Bramall, L.
Braybrooke, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridgeman, V.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Buchan, E.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Butterfield, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Camoys, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Cavendish of Furness, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chandos, V.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clifford of Chudleigh, L.
Clinton, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colwyn, L.
Congleton, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dartmouth, E.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
De Ramsey, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Deedes, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Derby, E.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donegall, M.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dudley, E.
Dunrossil, V.
Durham, Bp.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Effingham, E.
Elibank, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ely, Bp.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forte, L.

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Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenamara, L.
Gloucester, Bp.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hacking, L.
Haddington, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hankey, L.
Hanworth, V.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Headfort, M.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Hesketh, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hobhouse of Woodborough, L.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hood, V.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Huntingdon, E.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hutchinson of Lullington, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Iddesleigh, E.
Ilchester, E.
Inchyra, L.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kenyon, L.
Killearn, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood, L.
Knutsford, V.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leicester, E.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Limerick, E.
Lincoln, Bp.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd-Webber, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lytton, E.
McCarthy, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Malmesbury, E.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Middleton, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mills, V.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monckton of Brenchley, V.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Napier of Magdâla, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nickson, L.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Norwich, Bp.
Nunburnholme, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.

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Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Palumbo, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Romney, E.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Runcie, L.
Runciman of Doxford, V.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sainsbury of Preston Candover, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sandys, L.
Savile, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Sewel, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stafford, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Swinton, E.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Thurlow, L.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tryon, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tweedsmuir, L.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Wakefield, Bp.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Waterford, M.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weidenfeld, L.
Weinstock, L.
Weir, V.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitelaw, V.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wolfson, L.
Woolton, E.
Wrenbury, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Wynford, L.
Yarborough, E.
Young, B.
Zetland, M.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Norwich.

1.Lord Bell—Sir Timothy John Leigh Bell, Knight, having been created Baron Bell, of Belgravia in the City of Westminster, for life by Letters Patent dated in the afternoon of 31st July 1998 (see appendix 1), was introduced between the Lord Weinstock and the Baroness Thatcher, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

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2.Lord Sawyer—Lawrence Sawyer Esquire (known as Tom Sawyer), having been created Baron Sawyer, of Darlington in the County of Durham, for life by Letters Patent dated in the afternoon of 4th August 1998 (see appendix 2), was introduced between the Baroness Gould of Potternewton and the Lord Levy, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod and Garter King of Arms preceding; and took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.
3.Hereditary Peerage (Election)—The Queen’s answer to the Address of 5th October last was delivered by the Lord Chamberlain (Lord Camoys) and read, as follows:
I have received your Address and, relying on the wisdom of my Parliament, I desire that my prerogative and interest, insofar as they relate to the composition of the House of Lords, should not stand in the way of consideration by Parliament during the present session of any measure to amend the composition of the House of Lords by providing for the election to that House of holders of hereditary peerages from an electoral college consisting of peers and of certain other Lords, and for related purposes.

Judicial Business

4.Pritchard (Respondent) v. Cook (Petitioner) and another (lodged 2nd July)—The petition of Peter John Deverioux Cook praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
5.Society of Lloyd’s (Respondents) v. Pascoe and others (Petitioners) (lodged 28th August)—The petition of John Frederick Richard Pascoe, Richard Micklethwait, Ruth Mary Micklethwait, John Steven Neiger, Graham John French and Sir Michael John Bryan Leighton praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
6.Regina v. Immigration Appellate Authority (Respondents) ex parte Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) and Cakabay (A.P.) (Petitioner) (lodged 6th October)—The petition of Mahmut Cakabay praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged.
7.Appeal Committee—The report on the Clerk of the Parliaments’ reference regarding criminal legal aid taxation was made and ordered to be printed. (HL Paper 145)

Papers

8.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Finance—Treasury Minute on the 58th–60th and 62nd–67th reports of the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee;
 (4069)
2.Health—Surrogacy: review for Health Ministers of current arrangements for payments and regulation;
 (4068)
3.Shipping—
 
(i)International Life-Saving Appliance (LSA) code;(4063)
(ii)1996 Amendments to the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea;(4064)
9.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Judicial Pensions (Transfer Between Judicial Pension Schemes) (Amendment) Regulations 1998, laid under the Judicial Pensions and Retirement Act 1993;
 (2527)
2.Education (School Information) (England) Regulations 1998, laid under the Education Act 1996.
 (2526)
10.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
Amendment to the Queen’s Regulations for the Royal Air Force in respect of retired pay and pensions, laid under the Air Force (Constitution) Act 1917.

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Select Committee Report

11.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—The following report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed:
32nd Report, on the following Bills:
Northern Ireland Bill;
Scotland Bill—further observations;
Competition Bill [HL]—further observations. (HL Paper 146)

Public Business

12.Hereditary Peerage (Election) Bill [HL]—A bill to amend the composition of the House of Lords by providing for the election to that House of holders of hereditary peerages from an electoral college consisting of peers and of certain other Lords; and for connected purposes was presented by the Lord Pearson of Rannoch, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 156)
13.House of Lords reform—It was moved by the Baroness Jay of Paddington that this House take note of Her Majesty’s Government’s proposals for reform of the House of Lords, as set out in the Labour Party Manifesto; and a debate arising thereon, further debate was adjourned till tomorrow.

The House was adjourned at twenty-seven minutes before midnight
till tomorrow, three o’clock.


APPENDIX 1

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Sir Timothy John Leigh Bell Knight to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Bell of Belgravia in Our City of Westminster

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Bell to have and to hold unto him for his life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the afternoon of the thirty-first day of July in the forty-seventh year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL


APPENDIX 2

ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our right trusty and well beloved Lawrence Sawyer Esquire (known as Tom Sawyer) to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Sawyer of Darlington in Our County of Durham

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Sawyer to have and to hold unto him for his life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster in the afternoon of the fourth day of August in the forty-seventh year of Our Reign

BY WARRANT UNDER THE QUEEN’S SIGN MANUAL