House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

 Lords Journals
Contents
Index
Alphabetical list of Lords
Minutes and Order Papers

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Thursday 29 October 1998

The House met at two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Abercorn, D.
Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ahmed, L.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alanbrooke, V.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allen of Abbeydale, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
 Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour, E.
Barnett, L.
 Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.

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Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradford, Bp.
Bragg, L.
Braine of Wheately, L.
Bridge of Harwich, L.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Caldecote, V.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Christopher, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colyton, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Cranbrook, E.
Crathorne, L.
Cross, V.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
 Denton of Wakefield, B.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Dudley, E.
Dulverton, L.
Dunrossil, V.
Durham, Bp.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elibank, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elton, L.
Enniskillen, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Gridley, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hamwee, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrowby, E.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Headfort, M.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
 Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inchyra, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Kitchener, E.
Knollys, V.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levene of Port Soken, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay of Birker, L.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.

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Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Paul, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
 Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rodney, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Salisbury, Bp.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Sandys, L.
Sawyer, L.
Seccombe, B.
Serota, B.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwell, Bp.
 Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stockton, E.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strange, B.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mt. Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Swinton, E.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thurso, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.

Judicial Business

1.Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Birmingham City Council (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)—
2.Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Lincoln City Council (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)—

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3.Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Mayor etc. of the London Borough of Southwark and others (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)—
4.Kleinwort Benson Limited (Appellants) v. Mayor etc. of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea and others (Respondents) (On Appeal from the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court of Justice)—
(Consolidated appeals)—
The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the appeals be allowed; that the paragraphs of the Orders of Mr Justice Langley of 12th July 1996 which answered the preliminary issue (1) in the negative and the orders for costs be set aside; that the questions under the issues in these appeals be answered in the terms of the speech of the Lord Goff of Chieveley; and that the respondents do pay to the appellants their costs before Mr Justice Langley and in this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
5.British Fuels Limited (Appellants) v. Baxendale and another (Respondents)—
6.Wilson and others (Appellants) v. St Helen’s Borough Council (Respondents) and one other appeal—
The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the appeal of British Fuels Limited be allowed and the appeal of Wilson and others be dismissed; that, in the case of British Fuels Limited, paragraphs 5 and 8 of the Order of the Court of Appeal of 10th July 1997 be set aside; that the Orders of the Employment Appeal Tribunal of 24th July 1996 be restored; and that there be no order for costs in the Court of Appeal or in this House; that, in the case of Wilson and others, paragraphs 1 and 4 of the Order of the Court of Appeal of 10th July 1997 be affirmed; and that the appellants do pay to the respondents their costs in this House, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
7.Taylor and others (Appellants) v. Director of the Serious Fraud Office and others (Respondents)—The Report from the Appellate Committee was agreed to; it was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 22nd July 1997 be affirmed and the appeal dismissed with costs, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
8.Regina v. Manchester Stipendiary Magistrate and the Lord Advocate (Petitioner) ex parte Granada Television Limited (Respondents)—The petition of the Lord Advocate praying for leave to appeal in accordance with the Administration of Justice Act 1960 was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
9.Axis West Developments Limited (Appellants) v. Chartwell Land Investments Limited (Respondents) (Scotland)—The petition of the respondents praying that the appellants give security for costs in the sum of £50,000.00 notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order V, such sum to be paid into the House of Lords Security Fund Account within 21 days or within such other period as the Appeal Committee shall think fit, was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
10.In re Peracha (A.P.) (Petitioner) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)—The petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.
The House was resumed.

11.Lord Colyton—Alisdair Peter Munro Lord Colyton sat first in Parliament after the death of his grandfather, Henry Lennox d’Aubigneú Lord Colyton, having first taken and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Papers

12.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Customs and Excise—Report for 1997–98 of Her Majesty’s Customs and Excise;
 (4067)
2.Electoral Reform—Report of the Independent Commission on the Voting System:
(i)Volume I: Report;(4090-I)
(ii)Volume II: Evidence (CD Rom);(4090-II)
3.Transport—Government Response to the Report of the House of Commons Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee on the future of London Underground;
 (4093)
4.Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions—Government Response to the Report of the House of Commons Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee on the DETR’s Report for 1998 and expenditure plans for 1998–99.
 (4098)

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13.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Civil Procedure (Modification of Enactments) Order 1998;
2.Draft Social Security (New Deal Pilot) Regulations 1998.
14.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Local Government Act 1988 (Defined Activities) (Exemption) (Easington District Council) Order 1998, laid under the Local Government Act 1988;
 (2619)
2.Pneumoconiosis, etc., (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1998, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 1974.
 (—)
15.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
Report for 1997–98 of the Millennium Commission, laid under the National Lottery etc. Act 1993.

Public Business

16.War Pension of Mr Roger Viggers—The petition of Mr Roger Viggers, praying that this House will call upon the Secretary of State for Social Security to backdate the War Pension of Roger Viggers who, following a serious accident, was discharged from the army in 1976 but did not receive a War Pension until 1995, was presented by the Lord Davies of Oldham, and ordered to lie on the Table.
17.Regional Development Agencies Bill—It was moved by the Lord Whitty that the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:
Clause 1Clauses 21 to 23
Schedule 1Schedule 6
Clauses 2Clauses 24 to 32
Schedule 2 Schedule 7
Clauses 3 to 6Clauses 33 and 34
Schedule 3 Schedule 8
Clauses 7 to 19Clauses 35 and 36
Schedule 4 Schedule 9
Clause 20Clauses 37 to 45;
Schedule 5
the motion was agreed to.
18.Human Rights Bill [HL]—The Commons amendments were considered; certain Commons amendments were agreed to; an amendment to a Commons amendment was moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; a further Commons amendment was agreed to (see division list); the remaining Commons amendments were agreed to; and the privilege amendment was agreed to.
19.Student Mobility in the European Union (ECC debate)—It was moved by the Lord Wallace of Saltaire that this House take note of the Report of the European Communities Committee on Student Mobility in the European Union (27th Report, HL Paper 116); after debate, the motion was agreed to.
20.Northern Ireland A5 road—The Duke of Abercorn asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they are considering a request to the European Union for additional funding to ensure that the Londonderry–Strabane–Ballygawley A5 road is upgraded to the required modern standard; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Dubs.

The House was adjourned at six minutes before eight o’clock
to Monday next, half-past two o’clock.

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DIVISION

HUMAN RIGHTS BILL

It was moved by the Lord Williams of Mostyn that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 26; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents.............109

Not-Contents.............48

CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Amos, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Christopher, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Erroll, E.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Gallacher, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grenfell, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hamwee, B.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
 Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooson, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)
Jay of Paddington, B.
(Lord Privy Seal)
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lockwood, B.
Longford, E.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Newby, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Paul, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
 Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Russell, E.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tordoff, L.
Uddin, B.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Ampthill, L.
Balfour, E.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Bridges, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Burnham, L. [Teller]
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Chesham, L.
Cockfield, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Elton, L.
 Ferrers, E.
Harlech, L.
Harrowby, E.
Henley, L.
Holderness, L.
Kintore, E.
Kitchener, E.
Lauderdale, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Mancroft, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
 Monro of Langholm, L.
Mountevans, L.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
Onslow, E.
Renton, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stockton, E.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller]
Sudeley, L.
Torrington, V.
Trefgarne, L.
Vinson, L.
Young, B.