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The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that explanation. However, I still remain extremely concerned because we are, to a certain extent, being asked to legislate in the dark. One of the fundamental features which brought this matter to my attention was the considerable reference in Committee by the noble Baroness to the fact that everything that the Government intend to do is not on the face of the Bill. Therefore, the fundamental issue of being required to legislate in the dark remains; indeed, it remains to worry me deeply. None the less, I shall read the Minister's response with extreme care. At this stage, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Baroness Hayman moved Amendments Nos. 91 to 96:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Baroness Wilcox moved Amendment No. 96A:
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I shall withdraw this amendment. I tabled Amendment No. 96A because in response to my amendment at Committee stage the Minister indicated her intention to put a broader requirement to consult on the face of the Bill. It was disappointing indeed to note that no amendment had been tabled by the Minister at this point despite the fact that she had tabled a number of other amendments. I wondered whether I would get this amendment past her this evening because all I have done is to redraft it in a way that I hoped would be attractive to her. However, I was delighted to hear her say that this was a matter of timing, not of intent, and that was the reason she had not tabled an amendment. That is an honest revelation for which I am grateful. I fully understand the pressures of time which impinge on her. The enormous sweep of this Bill--some would say that it is too enormous--makes it a complex Bill with many audiences to satisfy from management and organisation right through to the crucial relationship between professionals and the people they serve. I look forward to seeing an amendment at the next stage of the Bill. With the Minister's encouragement, I beg to move.
Baroness Hayman: My Lords, I am grateful for the comments of the noble Baroness and for her stated intention to withdraw the amendment. I reiterate my desire to fulfil her aspirations.
Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Baroness Hayman moved Amendments Nos. 97 and 98:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Clause 48 [Regulations and orders]:
Baroness Hayman moved Amendment No. 100:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Hayman moved Amendment No. 101:
Page 51, leave out lines 25 to 27.
Page 51, line 37, leave out from second ("the") to end of line 38 and insert ("charging of fees").
Page 52, line 3, leave out ("47(1)(a)") and insert ("47(2)(a)").
Page 52, line 3, at end insert (", any regulatory body established by an Order as the successor to the Council for Professions Supplementary to Medicine or the United Kingdom Central Council for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting or any other regulatory body established by an Order.
( ) An Order may not impose any requirement which would have the effect that a majority of the members of the regulatory body of any profession would be persons not included in the register of members admitted to practice.
( ) An Order may not provide for any function conferred on the Privy Council, in relation to any profession to which section 47(2)(a) applies, to be exercised by a different person.").
Page 52, line 4, leave out from ("provides") to ("to") in line 7 and insert ("in relation to any profession, for any function mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) to be exercised by the regulatory body or any of its committees or officers, an Order may not provide for any person other than that regulatory body or any of its committees or officers").
Page 52, leave out line 14 and insert--
("( ) In sub-paragraph (1), "enactment" does not include any enactment contained in or made under the Professions Supplementary to Medicine Act 1960 or the Nurses, Midwives and Health Visitors Act 1997").
Page 52, line 20, at end insert--
("( ) consult representatives of patients and carers; and
( ) consult any other persons he considers appropriate.").
Page 52, line 23, after ("appropriate,") insert ("together with a report about the consultation,").
Page 52, leave out lines 30 to 32.
Page 39, line 7, at end insert--
("( ) No order is to be made under section 30(6) unless a draft has been laid before, and approved by resolution of, each House of Parliament.").
After Clause 49, insert the following new clause--
(". In this Act--
"the 1977 Act" means the National Health Service Act 1977,
"the 1990 Act" means the National Health Service and Community Care Act 1990,
"the Commission" means the Commission for Health Improvement,
"enactment" includes an enactment whenever passed or made.").
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 4 [Amendments of enactments]:
[Amendment No. 102 not moved.]
Baroness Hayman moved Amendments Nos. 102A, 102B and 102C:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Page 55, line 2, at end insert--
(". In section 29A(3)(b) of the 1977 Act (medical lists), for the words from first "disqualified" to "46" there is substituted "disqualified for inclusion in the list by, or by virtue of a direction of, the NHS Tribunal".
. In section 48 (disqualification provisions in Scotland or Northern Ireland)--
(a) in paragraph (a), for the words from "services" to "above" there is substituted "any of the services mentioned in any of the paragraphs of section 46(5) above",
(b) in paragraph (b), at the beginning, there is inserted "in relation to the services in question" and for the words from "a list" to the end there is substituted "any list and (if also the subject of a declaration under those provisions corresponding to a declaration of unfitness) be treated as if a declaration of unfitness had been made in respect of him.
(2) Where under the conditional disqualification provisions in Scotland or Northern Ireland--
(a) any conditions are imposed in relation to the provision by any person of any services mentioned in section 46(5) above, or
(b) any conditions so imposed are varied,
the Secretary of State may, by a notice in writing given to each Health Authority and to the person in question, impose those conditions in relation to the provision by that person of those services under this Part of this Act.
(3) A notice under subsection (2) above may make such modifications of the conditions as the Secretary of State considers necessary for them to have the like effect in relation to England and Wales as they have in relation to Scotland or (as the case may be) Northern Ireland, but only if the Secretary of State has previously given the person concerned written notice of the proposed modifications and an opportunity (in accordance with such requirements, if any, as may be prescribed) to make representations about them.
(4) Conditions imposed by a notice under subsection (2) above shall cease to have effect if the Secretary of State withdraws the notice by giving written notice to the person concerned.
(5) In this section, "the conditional disqualification provisions in Scotland or Northern Ireland" means any provisions in force in Scotland or Northern Ireland corresponding to sections 46C and (so far as relating to conditional disqualifications) 47 above."
. In section 49 (regulations as to sections 46 to 48)--
(a) in paragraph (c), after "disqualifications" there is inserted "or conditions",
(b) at the end of that section there is inserted--
"(2) Regulations under subsection (1)(a) above may in particular provide that, where (apart from the regulations) it would be the duty of the Tribunal to inquire into both an efficiency case and a fraud case in respect of the same person, they may inquire into one case before inquiring into the other and, after proceedings in the first case are finally disposed of, may if they think it appropriate adjourn the other case indefinitely."
. In section 49A (application for interim suspension)--
(a) after subsection (1) there is inserted--
"(1A) A Health Authority may, if they have requested a review of a conditional disqualification on the ground mentioned in section 47(3)(b) or (c) above, at any time before the review is concluded apply to the Tribunal for a direction to be made under subsection (2) below in relation to the person to whom the review relates",.
(b) in subsection (2), for the words from "it" to "patients" there is substituted "either of the conditions for doing so is satisfied" and after "in question" there is inserted "or the case to which the review in question,",
(c) after that subsection there is inserted--
"(2A) The conditions for giving such a direction are--
(a) that it is necessary to do so in order to protect persons who are, or may be, provided with services under this Part of this Act to which the case in question, or the case to which the review in question, relates,
(b) in, or in the case of a review relating to, a fraud case, that unless they do so there is a significant risk that--
(i) an act or omission within section 46(4C)(a) above will occur, or
(ii) the investigation of the case or the review will be prejudiced",.
(d) in subsection (3)(c), for the words from "under" to "engaged in" there is substituted "of unfitness in relation to",
(e) in subsection (4), after "case" there is inserted "or review",
(f) subsection (5) is omitted,
(g) in subsection (6)(a), "prepared under this Part of this Act" is omitted.
. In section 49B (continuation of suspension pending appeal)--
(a) for subsection (1) and the preceding sidenote there is substituted--
Suspension pending appeal.
"49B.--(1) Where, on disposing of a case under section 46B above, the Tribunal disqualify the person concerned under subsection (2)(b) of that section, they may, if they consider that either of the conditions mentioned in section 49A(2A) above is satisfied, direct that section 49A(3) above shall apply or, if a direction has been given under section 49A(2) above, shall continue to apply to him as respects services of the kind to which the disqualification relates.",.
(b) in subsection (2), in paragraph (a), for "direction under section 46(2)(b) above" there is substituted "disqualification under section 46B(2)(b) above" and, in paragraph (b), for "that direction" there is substituted "the disqualification",
(c) in subsection (3), for the words from "direction" to "section 46(2)(c) above" there is substituted "disqualification which is not coupled with a declaration of unfitness",
(d) subsection (4) is omitted.
. In section 49D (suspension provisions in Scotland or Northern Ireland), for "46(1)" there is substituted "46(5)".").
Page 56, line 25, at end insert--
(". In section 122(2) (recovery of charges), "as a simple contract debt" is omitted.").
Page 57, line 31, at end insert--
(". In Schedule 9 (NHS Tribunal), in paragraph 5A--
(a) in sub-paragraph (2)(a), for "section 46" there is substituted "sections 46 to 46C",
(b) in sub-paragraph (2)(b), after "disqualification" there is inserted "conditional disqualification or declaration of unfitness",
(c) in sub-paragraph (2)(d), for the words from "the application" to the end there is substituted "section 49A(3) may be made to apply or continue to apply".").
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