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Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No.173.
The noble Lord said: My Lords, at Report stage a number of government amendments were agreed that made changes to the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1967. That Act governs the payment of pensions and other benefits to staff who are in the Metropolitan Civil Staffs' Superannuation Scheme (MCSSS).
In moving those amendments I said that our policy was clear: first, that everyone who had entitlements to benefits under that scheme should retain those entitlements when the Metropolitan Police Authority was established and it took on the employment of the Metropolitan Police civil staff from the Metropolitan Commissioner and Receiver; and, secondly, that the MPA should have the power to continue operation of that scheme.
I also explained that the amendments were complex and that we might wish to make some changes to them at Third Reading. We have concluded that the wording could be improved upon and we are accordingly moving this group of four related amendments, Amendments Nos.173-176.
Before I explain what the amendments do, I should like to emphasise that they simply give better effect to the above-stated policy. They do not alter that policy. No one will lose benefits as a result of these changes.
In making amendments to the 1967 Act to reflect the creation of the MPA, we need to ensure that all individuals who are currently employed or have been employed either under the Commissioner or Receiver or as an Inner London justices' clerk, but who are not so employed on 3rd July 2000, do not lose any benefits to which they have become entitled under the MCSSS scheme.
The amendments passed at Report attempted to achieve this by including such staff as well as staff who on 3rd July 2000 are Inner London justices' clerks or who become MPA employees within the definition of a "member of the metropolitan civil staffs". Those are the people to whom benefits become payable under the MCSSS.
The difficulty with this approach is that it makes for a confusing definition of who is a,
The entitlement to benefits accrued under the MCSSS by staff who are not current employees on 3rd July 2000 and who are not therefore within this definition will instead be preserved by savings provided for in this group of amendments. These savings are set out in Amendment No. 176, which adds four new sub-paragraphs to paragraph 20 of Schedule 26. New sub-paragraph (10) defines the set of staff who will benefit from these savings provisions; namely, persons who cease to be members of the metropolitan civil staffs before what will be Section 305 of the Greater London Authority Act comes into force. That provision is the one which establishes the MPA. Any such staff who have entitlements to benefits under the MCSSS will, by virtue of new sub-paragraph (7), continue to receive their benefits as if the changes made to Section 15 of the 1967 Act had not taken place.
Sub-paragraph (8) simply provides that any benefits paid to that category of staff will be paid by the MPA, not by the receiver. Sub-paragraph (9) provides for the limited circumstances under which this category of staff might be moved off the MCSSS. Those circumstances are if they are transferred under powers in the Access to Justice Act or the Greater London Authority Act, which would most likely happen if they were to be transferred to the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme. As the MCSSS is by-analogy to the PCSPS, this would not result in any loss of benefits.
Amendment No. 173 is purely consequential upon Amendment No. 176. The final amendment in this group is Amendment No. 175. This plugs a minor gap in new subsection (2D) of Section 15 of the 1967 Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, as inserted by the amendments passed on Report. That subsection sets out the limited circumstances under which staff might be moved off the MCSSS. One of those circumstances is if powers in the Access to Justice Act are exercised to transfer Inner London justices' clerks on to a new pension scheme. As presently drafted, subsection (2D) identifies one power which could be used to effect such a transfer--paragraph 36 of Schedule 14. However, it is also possible that an order-making power contained in the new Section 50 of the 1997 Justices of the Peace Act, as inserted by paragraph 13 of Schedule 12 to the Access to Justice Act, might be used. Amendment No. 175 therefore adds this reference.
I hope that the above provides a reasonably clear explanation of what these amendments achieve. I know your Lordships followed every word. I beg to move.
Earl Attlee: My Lords, I am extremely grateful for the Minister's explanation. These are important issues. We are discussing people's pensions and we are grateful for the effort the Minister made in explaining the need for the amendment.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendments Nos. 174 to 177:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Schedule 30 [Transfer schemes]:
Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 178 and 179:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 180:
Page 384, line 3, leave out ("follows") and insert ("set out in sub-paragraphs (2) to (6) below").
"member of the metropolitan civil staffs".
In particular, it combines both the present and past tenses whereas the definition in the existing Section 15 of the 1967 Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act uses only the present tense. This mixture of tenses could have had unwanted side effects. We therefore decided on a slightly different approach. This approach is to have a new definition of,
"member of the metropolitan civil staffs",
which relates solely to current employees. It is confined to MPA employees and serving Inner London magistrates' courts staff. This is achieved by Amendment No. 174.
Page 384, line 6, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert ("for sub-paragraph (i) there shall be substituted--
"(i) who is employed by the Metropolitan Police Authority;".").
Page 384, line 39, after ("1972,") insert ("section 50 of the Justices of the Peace Act 1997,").
Page 384, line 52, at end insert--
("(7) Nothing in sub-paragraphs (2) to (5) above shall affect the application of section 15 of the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1967 in relation to any person falling within sub-paragraph (10) below.
(8) A pension or other benefit granted or continued to be paid to or in respect of a person by virtue of sub-paragraph (7) above shall be granted or paid by the Metropolitan Police Authority, and accordingly section 15(2)(a) of the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1967 shall not apply in relation to such a person.
(9) Section 15(2)(b) of the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1967 shall apply in relation to a person falling within sub-paragraph (10) below as if for the words from the beginning to "in respect of members of the metropolitan civil staffs" there were substituted--
"(b) unless the powers conferred by paragraph 36 of Schedule 14 to the Access to Justice Act 1999 or Part XII of the Greater London Authority Act 1999 are exercised for the purpose of making provision with respect to the provision of pensions for or in respect of members of the metropolitan civil staffs, the civil service provisions shall have effect (subject to any regulations for the time being in force under subsection (3) of this section) for the purposes of the grant of pensions and other benefits under this section to or in respect of such a member".
(10) A person falls within this sub-paragraph if he ceased to be a member of the metropolitan civil staffs for the purposes of section 15 of the Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1967 before the day on which section 305 above comes into force.").
Page 399, line 28, leave out ("6(1)") and insert ("6").
10.30 p.m.
Page 420, line 17, at end insert--
("( ) A transfer scheme may make provision for transfers to take effect at such time of day as may be specified in the scheme.").
Page 421, line 41, at end insert--
("( ) A transfer scheme may make different provision for different purposes.").
After Schedule 30, insert the following new schedule--
1.--(1) In this Schedule--
"employment" means employment under a contract of service or apprenticeship (whether express or implied and, if express, whether oral or in writing) and related expressions shall be construed accordingly;
"LRT pension scheme" means any occupational pension scheme for the provision of pensions for or in respect of persons with service in the employment of London Regional Transport or a subsidiary of London Regional Transport (whether or not pensions may also be provided under the scheme for or in respect of persons without such service);
"LRT welfare scheme" means a scheme (other than a pension scheme) for the provision, whether directly or indirectly, of benefits for or in respect of persons with service in the employment of London Regional Transport or a subsidiary of London Regional Transport (whether or not benefits may also be provided under the scheme for or in respect of persons without such service);
"occupational pension scheme" has the meaning given in section 1 of the Pension Schemes Act 1993;
"order" means an order made by the Secretary of State under section 402(1) of this Act;
"prescribed" means specified in, or determined in accordance with, an order.
(2) Subject to sub-paragraph (1) above, expressions used in this Schedule and in section 402 of this Act have the same meaning in this Schedule as they have in that section.
2.--(1) In the case of any LRT pension scheme, the provision that may be made by order under section 402(1) of this Act includes provision for or in connection with--
(a) the allocation of assets, rights, liabilities or obligations between different sections of the scheme;
(b) securing that the scheme continues to be approved for the purposes of the relevant enactments, notwithstanding any transfers made by or under this Act.
(2) In sub-paragraph (1) above "the relevant enactments" means--
(a) Chapter I of Part XIV of the Income and Corporation Taxes Act 1988 (retirement benefit schemes); and
(b) Part III of the Pension Schemes Act 1993, so far as relating to occupational pension schemes.
3.--(1) For the purposes of this paragraph, a "protected person" is a person--
(a) who, as a result of any prescribed relevant transaction, becomes, or since 20th March 1998 has become, an employee of a private sector company; and
(b) who, immediately before becoming such an employee, was an employee of London Regional Transport or a subsidiary of London Regional Transport.
(2) The Secretary of State may by order make provision for the purpose of securing that no protected person (and, accordingly, no person who is or may become entitled to a pension in respect of a protected person) ceases to be overall in materially at least as good a position, as respects pension arrangements, as a result of--
(a) the relevant transaction by reason of which the protected person is such a person; or
(b) any pensions order made in connection with that relevant transaction.
(3) The provision that may be made by virtue of sub-paragraph (2) above is provision for the purpose of securing that a protected person has the right--
(a) for so long as the appropriate conditions are satisfied, to continue to participate as a contributing member in any prescribed LRT pension scheme in which he was participating as such a member immediately before the relevant transaction, and
(b) for so long as his period of continuous employment is not broken, to participate as a contributing member in a pension scheme under which the benefits to be provided to or in respect of him are overall materially at least as good as those provided under any prescribed LRT scheme in which he was participating as a contributing member immediately before the relevant transaction,
subject to any provision made by virtue of sub-paragraph (6) below.
(4) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (3)(a) above, "the appropriate conditions" are--
(a) that the protected person continues to be a person employed in the London underground railway industry (whether or not with the same employer); and
(b) that any prescribed conditions with respect to continuity of employment are satisfied in his case.
(5) The provision that may be made by virtue of sub-paragraph (2) above includes provision for or in connection with the level of funding which is to be maintained in the case of any pension scheme of a prescribed description so far as relating to protected persons.
(6) An order made by virtue of sub-paragraph (2) above may make provision for such orders to cease to have effect in the case of any protected person if--
(a) he voluntarily withdraws from an occupational pension scheme, or
(b) he requests that his pension rights be transferred from an occupational pension scheme,
except in such circumstances or to such extent as may be prescribed.
(7) Circumstances may be prescribed in which--
(a) a break in the continuity of a person's period of employment,
(b) a person's ceasing to be a person employed in the London underground railway industry, or
(c) a person's voluntary withdrawal from an occupational pension scheme,
shall be disregarded for prescribed purposes of this paragraph.
(8) Chapter I of Part XIV of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (continuous employment) shall apply for the purposes of this paragraph as it applies for the purposes of that Act.
(9) For the purposes of this paragraph--
(a) the persons who are to be regarded as "employed in the London underground railway industry" are those who are employed to carry on activities of a class or description specified for the purposes of this sub-paragraph in an order made by the Secretary of State; and
(b) the Secretary of State may so specify any class or description of activity which, in his opinion, falls within, or is related to or connected with, the London underground railway industry.
(10) In this paragraph--
"contributing member", in the case of any pension scheme, means a member who makes, and whose employer makes in respect of him, contributions under the scheme;
"pensions order" means an order made otherwise than by virtue of this paragraph;
"private sector company" means any company other than a public sector operator, within the meaning of Chapter VII of Part IV of this Act;
"relevant transaction" means--
(a) a transfer of shares in a subsidiary of London Regional Transport to a private sector company; or
(b) a transfer of rights and liabilities under a contract of employment.
4. If the Secretary of State makes provision under this Act for or in connection with--
(a) enabling employees of Transport for London, or of a subsidiary of Transport for London, to participate in an LRT pension scheme, or
(b) enabling Transport for London or a subsidiary of Transport for London to participate as an employer in such a scheme,
he may by order make provision requiring the trustees of the scheme or any other person whose approval or consent is necessary in connection with the doing of anything required to be done by virtue of the order to give that approval or consent.
5.--(1) The provision that may be made by order under section 402(1) of this Act includes provision with respect to the provision, under an LRT welfare scheme, of benefits for or in respect of persons who are or have been employees of--
(a) London Regional Transport or any subsidiary of London Regional Transport; or
(b) Transport for London or any subsidiary of Transport for London.
(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1) above, the provisions of section 402 of this Act, and of the other paragraphs of this Schedule, shall apply in relation to an LRT welfare scheme as they apply in relation to a pension scheme, but taking references in those provisions to pensions as references to benefits and construing references to pension rights accordingly.
(3) The Secretary of State may by order amend the memorandum and articles of any company which is the trustee of an LRT welfare scheme for or in connection with permitting directors or shareholders of the company to be persons who are officers or servants of Transport for London or a subsidiary of Transport for London.
In this sub-paragraph "company", "memorandum" and "articles" have the same meaning as in the Companies Act 1985.
(4) Any powers--
(a) which were vested in the London Transport Board in relation to an LRT welfare scheme, and
(b) which have not become vested in London Regional Transport by virtue of a transfer under section 16(1) of the Transport (London) Act 1969 or otherwise,
shall be deemed to be vested in London Regional Transport by virtue of such a transfer.
(5) Anything done at any time by or in relation to London Regional Transport--
(a) before the coming into force of sub-paragraph (4) above, and
(b) in reliance on any power deemed by that sub-paragraph to be vested in London Regional Transport,
shall be as valid and effective as if the power had at that time been vested in London Regional Transport.").
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 31 [Taxation provisions]:
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