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Division No. 1


Alexander of Weedon, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Erroll, E.
Flather, B.
Glentoran, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Haslam, L.
Henley, L. [Teller]
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Onslow, E.
Oxfuird, V.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Reay, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rogan, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Warnock, B.
Wilcox, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Young, B.


Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Andrews. B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bernstein of Craigwell, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Blood, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridges, L.
Brookman, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carter, L. [Teller]
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Craig of Radley, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Grenfell, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Jacobs, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McCarthy, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Palmer, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L. [Teller]
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L
Simon, V.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walmsley, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

6 Jun 2000 : Column 1059

3.53 p.m.

Clauses 96 to 98 agreed to.

[Amendment No. 165 not moved.]

Schedule 11 agreed to.

Clause 99 agreed to.

Clause 100 [Video recording: code of practice]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 166:

    Page 48, line 31, at end insert ("if they take place in a police station (within the meaning of Schedule 8)").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 100, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 101 and 102 agreed to.

Schedule 12 agreed to.

Clauses 103 to 106 agreed to.

Schedule 13 [Private Security Services]:

Lord Bach moved Amendment No. 167:

    Page 136, line 33, after ("Chancellor") insert ("by statutory instrument").

The noble Lord said: Amendments Nos. 167 and 168 are drafting amendments. These amendments include those recommended by parliamentary counsel and make drafting improvements to the Bill.

Amendment No. 167 is a drafting amendment to put beyond doubt the status of the Lord Chancellor's rules and to ensure consistency with other references in the Bill. The rules in question are made under the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and relate to the national security certificate tribunal established under that Act. Amendment No. 168 is a technical amendment. I beg to move.

Lord Cope of Berkeley: I realise that Amendment No. 168 is highly technical but it would help the Committee if the noble Lord explained what it seeks to achieve. It appears to concern certificates of the Secretary of State which relate to licences and other matters being sent by post. It seems odd to have a special regime to deliver such certificates.

Lord Bach: I am not certain what the answer to the noble Lord's point is. If it reaches me shortly, I shall tell him what it is; if not, I shall write to him in due course.

Lord Cope of Berkeley: I look forward to receiving a letter.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bach moved Amendment No. 168:

    Page 138, line 45, leave out ("(4)") and insert ("(3)").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 13, as amended, agreed to.

6 Jun 2000 : Column 1060

Clause 107 [Specified organisations: interpretation]:

Lord Glentoran moved Amendment No. 169:

    Page 51, line 6, at beginning insert ("either--


The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 169, I wish to speak also to Amendments Nos. 170 and 171. These amendments seek to strengthen and--if I may say this without causing offence--to tidy up the provisions concerning proscribed organisations under the Bill and specified organisations under the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998.

As the Bill stands, only organisations that are specified under the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998 and are also proscribed under the Bill would be subject to some of the emergency legislation introduced after Omagh. Organisations such as the IRA, the UVF and the UDA would be excluded. We do not feel that this can be justified. Our amendments would tighten the definition for specification under the Terrorism Bill to include organisations that are not, for example, decommissioning their illegally held arms and explosives. In short, we want to remove from this Bill the subjectivity in the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act.

The Bill defines a specified organisation as one which is specified under the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998 and is, or forms part of, an organisation which is proscribed for the purposes of the Bill and is therefore listed in Schedule 2. At present the Real IRA, the INLA, the Provisional IRA and Continuity IRA are not proscribed. In order to be specified under the Terrorism Bill an organisation has to be both specified under the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act and--

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