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Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, I listened with care to the Minister. Once again he made a fairly strong case. If indeed it is already within the power of the Bill to implement differential buy-out prices, it strikes me that difficulties will be encountered with the single flat rate cap. This may be something that the Government need to examine more closely. At an earlier stage we argued that a cap should be triggered only if it was clear that excessive prices were being charged to consumers. However, the Government did not like that. As they see it, the cap forms an integral part of the process.
However, if the power is in place to use differential prices, at this stage perhaps we should rely on that. I welcome also the thought that was given to the
response to meet the intentions that lie behind the amendment. I believe that we all seek the same objective in this area, and perhaps the amendment is not the right way forward. In the circumstances, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 72 [Uniform prices etc. in certain areas of Scotland]:
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 9:
- Page 75, line 19, leave out ("and") and insert ("or").
The noble Lord said: My Lords, Clause 72 of the Bill ensures that powers will continue to be available to ensure that the prices charged by electricity transmission or distribution licence holders for use of their systems in a specified area of Scotland will not differ for reasons of geography between different parts of the area. This obligation benefits the remote communities of the north and west of Scotland.
The minor drafting amendment clarifies the intention that the requirement for uniform prices is intended to apply to holders of either transmission or distribution licences within the specified area, regardless of whether such licensees also carry out the other function within the area. The amendment thus ensures that possible future changes in the ownership structure of the industry will not narrow the scope of this provision. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 95 [Financial penalties]:
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved amendment No. 10:
- Page 100, line 31, at end insert--
The noble Lord said: My Lords, Amendments Nos. 10, 23 and 24 are all consequential amendments to changes to the financial penalties provisions which the Government accepted on Report.
Amendment No. 10 is identical to an amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, and the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, on Report and accepted by the Government, except that their amendment applied to the electricity sector and this applies to gas.
The amendment was intended to insert a protection against double jeopardy in relation to financial penalties imposed under the Utilities Bill and the Competition Act 1998. It was intended to mirror the provisions already in place in the Gas and Electricity Acts in relation to enforcement orders and double jeopardy under the Competition Act 1998. The amendment is necessary in order to ensure consistency in the Bill's provisions as they apply to the electricity and gas sectors.
Amendments Nos. 23 and 24 are consequential on amendments to Clauses 59 and 95 tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Borrie and Lord Currie, and accepted by the Government on Report. The amendments
The amendments we are tabling today simply have the effect that any order made under Section 27A(8) of the Electricity Act 1989 or Section 30A(7) of the Gas Act 1986, for the purposes of specifying provisions in relation to the cap--such as the definition of turnover--will be excluded from the generic provisions under the Acts that orders shall be subject to negative resolution, and will therefore allow it to be subject to affirmative resolution as specified by the financial penalties clauses. The provision for affirmative resolution mirrors the arrangements under the Competition Act 1998. I beg to move.
Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, we are delighted that the Government have introduced this provision, which mirrors the amendment that we tabled on Report, and which is now Clause 59(2) of the Bill. We are particularly delighted that the drafting is as ours.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Brightman moved Amendment No. 11:
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 11. I do so in order to have the opportunity to explain the genesis of the four amendments which stand in my name, and also to have the opportunity to express my thanks to the Minister for his co-operation in meeting the problems which I thought arose in the drafting of subsections (2) and (3) of Clause 106. These subsections are to be found on page 118 of the Bill beginning at line 14.
My problem with the subsections was that they placed on the reader the burden of scanning the whole of Part I of the Gas Act 1986, some 48 pages, and Part I of the Electricity Act 1989, which is of a similar length, in order to discover the definitions which are to be carried forward into the Utilities Bill. There is no reference in those subsections as drafted to the relevant sections of the two parts.
Furthermore, the subsections suggest that only Part I of each of the Acts need be looked at in order to discover the definitions. In fact, the reader must refer also to Part III of each Act for definitions which have to be carried forward into the Utilities Bill. A person of a critical turn of mind might be tempted to describe subsections (2) and (3) as drafted as both obscure and misleading.
As a result of discussions with the Minister yesterday, I drafted Amendments Nos. 11, 12 and 15 in order to meet the situation. However, the noble Lord has tabled Amendments Nos. 14 and 16 with the same purpose in view. I am more than content to
The Deputy Speaker (Lord Murton of Lindisfarne): My Lords, perhaps I should put the amendment to the House first! The amendment is at page 118, line 13, at end insert the words as printed.
Lord Elton: My Lords, I did not want to interrupt that graceful minuet. I should merely like to express my satisfaction and, I believe, the gratitude of many other Members of this House for the noble and learned Lord's careful scrutiny of so much of our legislation. His ability, which few if any others of us possess, lies in persuading the Government and the parliamentary draftsmen that what he proposes is better than what they propose. In this case, they have managed to propose something nearly as good, and we are very pleased. But it is notable, the way in which the noble and learned Lord on occasion comes in and disperses the fog that has obscured matters. I merely want to say thank you to him.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brightman, said nearly all of it, and the noble Lord, Lord Elton, said most of the rest--although I have to say that I bridle at the phrase "nearly as good". Of course, it is marvellous that the noble and learned Lord should, as he so often does, pursue his intention of making the drafting of this Bill and other measures more transparent and more accessible to laymen. He has a point and he has argued it. He is right. However, our drafting is better, as I think the noble and learned Lord will admit!
Lord Brightman: My Lords, I think I may have been premature in asking leave to withdraw the amendment!
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 12 and 13 not moved.]
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 14:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 16:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 17:
The noble Lord said: This amendment inserts into Clause 106 (the interpretation clause) a new subsection with the effect that Section 46 of the Gas Act 1986, which is concerned with service of notices, etc, applies to the Utilities Bill. The provision is required because the Bill does not contain any provisions analogous to Section 46 as to the manner of such service. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 1 [The Gas and Electricity Markets Authority]:
("( ) The Authority shall not impose a penalty on a licence holder under subsection (1) where it is satisfied that the most appropriate way of proceeding is under the Competition Act 1998.").
Page 118, line 13, at end insert--
("( ) The definitions in sections 48 and 66 of the 1986 Act shall, as regards matters relating to gas, apply to this Act, unless the context otherwise requires.")
("( ) The definitions in sections 64 and 111 of the 1989 Act shall, as regards matters relating to electricity, apply to this Act, unless the context otherwise requires.").
4.45 p.m.
Page 118, line 14, leave out ("and in Part I of the 1986") and insert ("which are defined in section 48 or 66 of the 1986 Act or used in Part I of that").
Page 118, line 18, leave out ("and in Part I of the 1989") and insert ("which are defined in section 64 or 111 of the 1989 Act or used in Part I of that").
Page 118, line 19, at end insert--
("( ) Section 46 of the 1986 Act (service of notices, etc.) shall apply to any document authorised or required by virtue of any provision of this Act to be served on or given to any person as if it were authorised or required to be served or given by virtue of that Act.").
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