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Baroness Strange: I support the amendment, which is noble and honourable. This is something we should all do to support the widows and orphans. Those of us who are lucky enough not to be widows and certainly an orphan know how people feel. They suffer a great deal of pain. They have been pursuing their duty and we really owe this to them. I hope the Government will support the amendment.
Lord Eames: Next Sunday I shall be dedicating a memorial window to officers of the Royal Ulster Constabulary in a certain area who have paid the supreme sacrifice. I can tell at this moment the congregation I shall look at. I simply say to the Minister that any generosity found possible by Her Majesty's Government in the days to come would be responding to a great need in our society at home. I would gladly welcome what was offered.
Lord Glentoran: I have two comments: first, I made representations to the Minister and his right honourable friend on this subject some months ago. I support the idea and the principle of the amendment. I am a little concerned that maybe paragraph (b) could lay the foundation for getting involved with pensions and so forth. If the Minister is minded to accept the amendment, I would ask him to ensure that it is drafted in the Bill in such a way that the foundation is not laid for getting into an area in the statutory business of pensions. However, I support the amendment.
Lord Hylton: I am happy to support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Laird. Indeed, bearing in mind what I said on Monday, I hope he expected that I would. However, perhaps I may put a small drafting point to the noble Lord and to the Government. It concerns the last word in the amendment; that is, "families". That may be too wide. The Minister may like to consider substituting
"dependants", which is tighter wording that might prevent unnecessary or frivolous applications to the proposed foundation.
Lord Monson: It is only right that yet another voice from this side of the water should rise to support the principle of this excellent amendment.
Viscount Brookeborough: I support the amendment. The widows, the injured and the retired are proud and honourable. Rather like the war widows, discussed in recent months in this place, they will not go begging. The reason we are here is to look after people who have given such service to their country. We should do that by introducing, if not this amendment, an amendment to the same effect.
Lord Archer of Sandwell: Lest it be thought that silence from these Back Benches betokens any lack of enthusiasm for the amendment, perhaps I may say that we are wholly behind it. We think that it is admirable and we are delighted to see it.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: The Government entirely agree with the sentiments expressed in the amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Laird, has been a persistent and effective advocate on behalf of injured policemen and the widows of policemen. I readily acknowledge the work of the RUC Benevolent Fund and the fine job it does for members and former members. With regard to the RUC Widows' Association, the Government have already fully met Patten's recommendation 88 that it should be given an office free of charge and a regular source of finance adequate to run its organisation. I am pleased to report that the widows' association is now conducting its affairs from premises adjacent to the Police Rehabilitation and Retraining Trust in Belfast and has agreed with the Secretary of State the amount of financial support which it believes is needed to provide reasonable funding for its organisation.
As regards the second part of the amendment, the Government are committed to implementing recommendation 87 of the Patten report which states that a substantial fund should be set up to help injured police officers, injured retired officers and their families, as well as police widows. Noble Lords will recall that I prefaced my comments at Second Reading on 27th July by announcing that the Government had appointed the highly respected former Northern Ireland Office civil servant John Steele to examine and make recommendations about the needs of those listed in this amendment and arrangements for establishing and administering such a fund. I know that his report will be presented to the Secretary of State by the end of this month. In substance, therefore, the Government are already going beyond what the amendment seeks to do.
I turn to the RUC GC Foundation. The noble Lord will recall that the Government set up this foundation in response to Her Majesty's fitting award of the George Cross to the RUC to mark the sacrifices and honour the achievements of the brave officers of the
RUC and their families. A working group set up by the Secretary of State is currently considering how best to give effect to those proposals, though noble Lords will see listed in Clause 67 of the Bill that the general thrust of the foundation is towards the professional development of police officers and innovations in policing. Invitations to sit on the working group have been extended to the Police Federation, the superintendents and the Chief Police Officers Staff Association.The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, referred on Monday to the possibility of fortification of the RUC GC Foundation with a royal charter. That, of course, is not something within the Government's gift. However, I understand that the Secretary of State would seek to support any such application that might be made by the foundation. For all those reasons I would ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Laird: I thank the Minister for his words, and other noble Lords who have spoken in support of the amendment. I am prepared to withdraw the amendment. However, I should like to discuss the issue with the Minister and perhaps refer back to it on another occasion. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 232:
- After Clause 69, insert the following new clause--
(" .--(1) The Board shall make, and keep under review, arrangements for designated places of detention to be visited by persons appointed under the arrangements ("lay visitors").
(2) The arrangements shall require a report on each visit to be made to the Board and the Chief Constable by the lay visitor concerned.
(3) The report shall deal with--
(a) the conditions under which persons are held in the designated place of detention concerned and with their welfare and treatment;
(b) the adequacy of facilities at that place of detention;
(c) such other matters as may be specified in an order made by the Secretary of State.
(4) The arrangements may confer on lay visitors such powers as the Board considers necessary to enable the report required as a result of subsection (2) to be made and may, in particular, confer on them a power to--
(a) require access to given to each designated place of detention;
(b) examine records relating to the holding of persons there;
(c) interview persons who are being held there;
(d) inspect the facilities there including, in particular, washing and toilet facilities and the facilities for the provision of food.
(5) A power conferred as a result of subsection (4)(b) or (c) may be exercised only with the consent of the person concerned.
(6) Any power conferred by the arrangements may be subject to such limitations as may be specified in the arrangements.
(7) The arrangements shall provide that a person may not be appointed as a lay visitor if--
(a) he is a member of the Board; or
(b) he is, or has been, a police officer.
(8) The Board may issue, and from time to time revise, guidance to lay visitors about the discharge of their functions under this section.
(9) "Designated place of detention" means a police station for the time being designated under Article 36 of the Police and Criminal Evidence (Northern Ireland) Order 1989, except so much of the station as is for the time being designated for the purposes of paragraph 1 of Schedule 8 to the Terrorism Act 2000.
(10) The Secretary of State may by order specify as designated places of detention for the purposes of this section--
(a) a part of any police station if that part is for the time being designated for the purposes of paragraph 1 of Schedule 8 to the Terrorism Act 2000.
(b) any other place which is designated under any enactment as a place in which persons may be detained.").
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 5 [Application of anti-discrimination legislation to the police]:
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 233:
Schedule 5, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 72 [Orders and regulations]:
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton moved Amendment No. 234:
Page 58, line 43, leave out ("member of the Police Service of Northern Ireland") and insert ("police officer").
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Page 35, line 29, at end insert--
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