House of Lords Journal 233 (Session 1999-00)

Previous Next

Monday 3 July 2000

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.

Page 530


Volume 233      

Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bellwin, L.
Berkeley, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth , L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Chalfont, L.
Christopher , L.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Fookes, B.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kimball, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Nolan, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.

Page 531


Volume 233

Back to top

Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Prashar, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roper, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Sheppard of Liverpool, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stevenson of Coddenham, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Blackburn.

Judicial Business

1.Attorney General’s Reference No. 3 of 1999—The point of law referred to the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) by the Attorney General was laid before the House pursuant to section 36 (3) of the Criminal Justice Act 1972 and was referred to an Appellate Committee.
2.Regina v. Department of Health (Petitioners) ex parte Source Informatics Limited (Respondents) and others—Upon application by the petitioners (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the petition be withdrawn; and that the petitioners do pay to the respondents their costs in this House, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
3.Appeal Committee—The 57th Report was made; the Appeal Committee reported that they had met and had heard Counsel; the report was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

Hirst (Petitioner) v. Etherington (Respondent) and another—That leave to appeal be refused; and that the petitioner do pay to the respondent the costs of the petition, the amount thereof to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Respondents) v. Sinclair Collis Limited (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be given, and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 17th July next.


4.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Patents Regulations 2000;
2.Draft Consumer Protection Act 1987 (Product Liability) (Modification) Order 2000.
5.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (Borough of Reading) Order 2000, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1991;
2.Superannuation (Admission to Schedule 1 to the Superannuation Act 1972) (No. 2) Order 2000 laid under the Superannuation Act 1972.

Page 532


Volume 233

Back to top

6.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Report and Accounts for 1999–2000 of East of Scotland Water, laid under the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994.

Select Committee Report

7.Procedure of the House—The 3rd Report from the Select Committee was made (see appendix); it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 85)

Public Business

8.Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit Limited (PARBUL)—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees, on behalf of the Committee of Selection, that the Lord Morris of Castle Morris be appointed a member of the Parliamentary Broadcasting Unit Limited (PARBUL); the motion was agreed to.
9.Criminal Justice and Court Services Bill—It was moved by the Lord Bassam of Brighton that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
10.Television Licences (Disclosure of Information) Bill—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed and the bill was reported without amendment.
11.Wireless Telegraphy (Television Licence Fees) Bill [HL]—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was agreed to; the House was resumed and the bill was reported with an amendment; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 98)
12.United Nations peacekeeping operations—The Lord Avebury asked Her Majesty’s Government what lessons can be drawn from the reports to the United Nations on UN operations in Srebrenica and Rwanda; the question was answered by the Baroness Scotland of Asthal.

The House was adjourned at twelve minutes before nine o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


Third Report from the Select Committee
on Procedure of the House


By the Select Committee on Procedure of the House

Ordered to Report:

1. Humble Address for Queen’s Consent

When a private member’s bill in the Lords is directed substantially to the Queen’s prerogative, the practice is for the private Member to move an Address seeking the Consent of the Crown before the bill is introduced. This motion may be debated and opposed.

The origins of this procedure are unclear and it is confined to private members’ bills. The procedure does not exist in the Commons. The procedure can have the effect of denying the House any sight of the bill because the bill cannot be introduced if the motion for the Humble Address is succesfully opposed.1 In the opinion of the Committee, it is not desirable that the House should, on a technicality, be able to reject a bill before seeing it and debating it.

The Committee therefore recommends that the practice relating to Queen’s Consent should be the same for private members’ bills as for government bills. In the case of a bill substantially affecting the prerogative, the government should, on behalf of the private Member, seek Queen’s Consent and, if it is granted, a minister who is a Privy Counsellor should announce it to the House before second reading.

Her Majesty the Queen has been consulted about this recommendation and is content to let the House decide the issue.

2. Human Rights: changes to Standing Orders arising from the appointment of a Joint Committee

In the expectation that the two Houses of Parliament will agree to appoint a Joint Committee on Human Rights before the summer recess, and in view of the coming fully into force of the Human Rights

Page 533


Volume 233

Back to top

Act 1998 on 2 October 2000, the Committee recommends amendments to standing orders consequential on such an appointment. A motion to amend the Standing Orders would only be tabled after the House has agreed to the appointment of a Human Rights Committee.

The changes proposed are set out below. They would have the following effects:

— to add the new joint committee to the list of sessional committees whose business is not interrupted by prorogation; and

— to make the joint committee responsible for scrutiny of remedial orders made under the Human Rights Act 1998, and to relieve the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments of that responsibility.

The Committee also recommends that the rotation rule should be applied to the new joint committee, giving Lords members a maximum period of service of four sessions. An extension of three years should be given to any Lord who may be chosen as chairman of the joint committee.

The Committee recommends one further amendment to Standing Order 73 (Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments) to bring it into line with an amendment already made in the House of Commons. The amendment is consequential on the devolution legislation. It would exclude from the consideration of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments any statutory instrument made by a member of the Scottish Executive or by the National Assembly for Wales, unless such a statutory instrument is required to be laid before the United Kingdom Parliament or either House of it.

Proposed amendments to Standing Orders

Standing Order 40 (arrangement of the Order Paper)

After paragraph (6), insert the following new paragraph:

(“(6A) Any motion relating to a report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights on a remedial order or draft remedial order laid under Schedule 2 to the Human Rights Act 1998 shall be entered before a motion to approve that order or draft order.”)

Standing Order 64 (sessional committees)

After (“House of Lords’ Offices Committee”) insert (“Human Rights Committee”)

Standing Order 72 (affirmative instruments)

In paragraph (1)(a), after (“Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994”) insert (“or a draft remedial order or remedial order laid under Schedule 2 to the Human Rights Act 1998”)

In paragraph (b), after (“Delegated Powers and Deregulation Committee”) insert:

(“(c) in the case of a draft remedial order or remedial order laid under Schedule 2 to the Human Rights Act 1998, there has been laid before the House the report thereon of the Joint Committee on Human Rights;

Provided that the report is laid

(i) in the case of a draft remedial order, within 60 days of the laying of the draft order or

(ii) in the case of an order not approved in draft, within 119 days of the making of the original order,

such periods to be calculated in the manner prescribed by Schedule 2 to the Act;”)

Standing Order 73 (Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments)

In paragraph (1), after (“Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994”) insert (“and any remedial order or draft remedial order under Schedule 2 to the Human Rights Act 1998”)

In paragraph (2), line 4, after (“but”) insert (“not including any statutory instrument made by a member of the Scottish Executive or by the National Assembly for Wales unless it is required to be laid before Parliament or either House of Parliament and”).

3. The Companion to the Standing Orders

The Committee considered and approved a revised text of the Companion to the Standing Orders, as drafted by the sub-committee appointed on 4 April 2000. The Committee expressed its gratitude to the sub-committee for undertaking this arduous task.

The Committee agreed that the Companion should be printed on standard A5 paper and continue to be a single volume.

It is intended to revise and publish later in the year the Brief Guide to the procedure and practice of the House of Lords, drawing on the new edition of the Companion. The page size of the Brief Guide will be the same as it is now.

1 This happened on the motion for an Humble Address on Lordy Forsyth of Drumlean’s Succession to the Crown Bill: 2 December 1999, HL Deb, cols 917-9.