House of Lords Journal 234 (Session 2000-01)


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Wednesday 17 January 2001

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bellwin, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Bingham of Cornhill, L.
Birt, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Boardman, L.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clyde, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coe, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geraint, L.
Gibson, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hanham, B.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haslam, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hobhouse of Woodborough, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.

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Hoffmann, L.
Hogg, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hutton, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Joffe, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Millett, L.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Nolan, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Perry of Walton, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Porter of Luddenham, L.
Prashar, B.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. Albans, Bp.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Foscote, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Steyn, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Weidenfeld, L.
Whitaker, B.

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Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Younger of Leckie, V.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of St Albans.

Papers

1.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Companies (EU Political Expenditure) Exemption Order 2001;
2.Draft Representation of the People (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2001;
3.Draft Representation of the People (England and Wales) Regulations 2001.
2.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Companies (Unregistered Companies) (Amendment) Regulations 2001, laid under the Companies Act 1985;
 (86)
2.Weights and Measures (Metrification Amendments) Regulations 2001, laid under the Weights and Measures Act 1985.
 (85)
3.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Accounts for 1999–2000 of the National Savings Investment Deposits, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Finance Act 1980;
2.Accounts for 1999–2000 of the National Savings Ordinary Deposits, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the National Savings Bank Act 1971.

Select Committee Report

4.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—The following Report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed:

4th Report, on the following bills:

 Culture and Recreation Bill [HL];
 International Criminal Court Bill [HL];
 Psychotherapy Bill [HL];
  Parliamentary Referendum Bill [HL];
  European Union (Implications of Withdrawal) Bill [HL]. (HL Paper 20)

Private Business

5.Barclays Group Reorganisation Bill [HL]—
6.National Australia Group Europe Bill [HL]—

The bills were presented and read a first time.

Public Business

7.Tax Simplification Bills—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that this House do concur with the Commons in their message of 21st December, that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider tax simplification bills, and in particular to consider whether each bill committed to it preserves the effect of the existing law, subject to any minor changes which may be desirable;

That a Select Committee of six Lords be appointed to join with a Committee appointed by the Commons as the Joint Committee on Tax Simplification Bills;

That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Committee:

L. Blackwell
L. Brightman
B. Cohen of Pimlico
L. Goodhart
L. Haskel
L. Howe of Aberavon;

That the Committee have power to agree with the Commons in the appointment of a Chairman;

That the quorum of the Committee shall be two;

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That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out;

That the procedure of the Joint Committee shall follow the procedure of select committees of the House of Commons when such procedure differs from that of select committees of this House, and shall include the power of the chairman to select amendments;

and that the Committee do meet with a Committee appointed by the Commons on Thursday 18th January at half past ten o’clock in Committee Room 3;

after debate, the motion was agreed to and it was ordered that a Message be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

8.Marriage and family values (Balloted debate)—It was moved by the Baroness Young that there be laid before the House papers relating to marriage and traditional family values; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
9.Tax simplification bills—A message was brought from the Commons that they have ordered:
(1)There shall be a Select Committee, to consist of seven Members, to join with the committee appointed by the Lords as the Joint Committee on Tax Simplification Bills, to consider tax simplification bills, and in particular to consider whether each bill committed to it preserves the effect of the existing law, subject to any minor changes which may be desirable;
(2)The Committee shall have power to send for persons, papers and records, to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House, to report from time to time and to appoint specialist advisers either to supply information which is not readily available or to elucidate matters of complexity within the Committee’s order of reference;
(3)The quorum of the Committee shall be two;
(4)Unless the House otherwise orders, each Member nominated to the committee shall continue to be a member of it for the remainder of the Parliament;
(5)The procedure of the Joint Committee shall follow the procedure of select committees of this House when such procedure differs from that of select committees of the House of Lords;
(6)The chairman shall have the like powers of selection as are given to the chairman of a standing committee under paragraph (3) (a) of Standing Order No.89 (Procedure in standing committees);

and they have ordered that the Committee appointed by them do meet with the Lords Committee on Thursday 18th January at half-past ten o’clock, as proposed by this House.

10.H M Prison Blantyre House (Balloted debate)—It was moved by the Lord Mayhew of Twysden that there be laid before the House papers relating to the record of H M Prison Blantyre House as a resettlement prison, and to the circumstances in which a search of the Prison was conducted on 5th and 6th May by officers from other prisons and the Prison’s Governor removed from the Prison; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
11.Elderly and disabled people—The Lord Ashley of Stoke asked Her Majesty’s Government whether they will reconsider their refusal to pay for personal care for elderly and disabled people in residential homes; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Hunt of Kings Heath.
12.Human Rights—A message was brought from the Commons that they concur with the Resolution of this House concerning a Joint Committee of both Houses on Human Rights and have ordered:
(1)There shall be a Select Committee, to consist of six Members, to join with the Committee appointed by the Lords as the Joint Committee on Human Rights.
(2)The Committee shall consider—
(a)matters relating to human rights in the United Kingdom (but excluding consideration of individual cases);
(b)proposals for remedial orders, draft remedial orders and remedial orders made under section 10 of and laid under Schedule 2 to the Human Rights Act 1998; and
(c)in respect of draft remedial orders and remedial orders, whether the special attention of the House should be drawn to them on any of the grounds specified in Standing Order No. 151 (Statutory Instruments (Joint Committee));
(3)The Committee shall report to the House—
(a)in relation to any document containing proposals laid before the House under paragraph 3 of the said Schedule 2, its recommendation whether a draft order in the same terms as the proposals should be laid before the House; or

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(b)in relation to any draft order laid under paragraph 2 of the said Schedule 2, its recommendation whether the draft Order should be approved;

and the Committee may report to the House on any matter arising from its consideration of the said proposals or draft orders.

(4)The Committee shall report to the House in respect of any original order laid under paragraph 4 of the said Schedule 2, its recommendation whether—
(a)the order should be approved in the form in which it was originally laid before Parliament; or
(b)that the order should be replaced by a new order modifying the provisions of the original order; or
(c)that the order should not be approved,

and the Committee may report to the House on any matter arising from its consideration of the said order or any replacement order.

(5)The quorum of the Committee shall be three.
(6)Unless the House otherwise orders, each Member nominated to the Committee shall continue to be a member of it for the remainder of the Parliament.
(7)The Committee shall have power—
(a)to send for persons, papers and records, to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House, to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom, to adjourn to institutions of the Council of Europe outside the United Kingdom no more than four times in any calendar year, and to report from time to time; and
(b)to appoint specialist advisers either to supply information which is not readily available or to elucidate matters of complexity within the Committee’s order of reference.

The House was adjourned at three minutes before nine o’clock
till tomorrow, ten o’clock for judicial business,
three o’clock for public business.