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Disturbances in Bradford
5 p.m.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, David Blunkett. The Statement is as follows:
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"I believe that the response of the whole House will be to make it clear that we cannot and will not tolerate the wanton destruction and violence we have witnessed over the past few days.
"The message must be unequivocal and unwavering: whatever the debate about alienation and disaffection, attacking the police, destroying the well-being of the local community and playing into the hands of organised groups will simply not be tolerated.
"The facts can be recounted briefly. The banning order on all marches and processions in Bradford for three months had been in force since 4th July. The police were aware of reports of extreme right-wing elements seeking to defy the ban.
"Fighting began in the town centre in the late afternoon as efforts were made to disperse an Anti-Nazi League rally. The fighting shifted from the city centre to the Manningham area in the early evening, by which time the police themselves were the focus for attack.
"Missiles, including petrol bombs which had clearly been prepared in advance, were thrown at the police by a mob numbering 400 to 500 at its peak. One hundred and sixty-four police officers were injured. Thirty-six people were arrested, only two of whom were from outside Bradford.
"On Sunday night and Monday morning the Manningham area was quiet. Subsequently there was a serious attack on a restaurant in the Ravenscliff area and I regret to say that there was further disorder last night, involving youths throwing missiles in the Ravenscliff and Holmwood areas of the city. There have in total been 34 more arrests arising from the disorder in the city since Sunday.
"The police commander at the scene spoke of senseless violence and criminality. I endorse his judgment and applaud the courage shown by the police themselves in dealing with the situation.
"The damage to local businesses and the prosperity of the area will not be made good quickly. As always, the people who suffer in the long run will be members of the local community. We will wish to work with the people of Bradford to restore calm and look to the future.
"However, let me make it clear that a pre-requisite for dealing with social ills or rebuilding confidence within the community must be to take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that order is restored.
"Following the disturbances in Oldham and Burnley, I asked my right honourable friend, the Minister of State responsible for crime reduction, policing and community safety, to draw together an inter-departmental ministerial group. That has met twice already. He will today be publishing preliminary results of wider action proposed by that group in addressing the concerns in a range of communities across the country and how, in conjunction with local people, the Government can do more to minimise the risk of further disorder.
"I wish to stress that we are not seeking to impose solutions from Whitehall or to lift the responsibility that must rest at local level, but we are seeking from local communities possible ideas on how young people can be further aided in taking up opportunities for recreation and other activities over the summer months--in particular, measures to bring different religions and racial and community groups together.
"I now propose to take that work a stage further. The ministerial group will undertake an urgent review over the summer of all the relevant community issues. It will be supported by a small, dedicated review team of people with the right skills. That team will seek views from people on the ground in the areas which have suffered violence, as well as in other places with similar social and demographic features which have not. The aim will be to draw lessons that can inform future policy at national, local and community levels.
"That group will continue its work and be complemented by the development of longer-term proposals from the Performance and Innovation Unit based in the Cabinet Office.
"There are many lessons to be learned from past as well as present events. The intelligence of practical planning issues for the police is one such challenge. We now need to ensure that the professionalism and experience of our police service is made available quickly and effectively to prevent further disturbance.
"The Association of Chief Police Officers has already held one meeting of commanders under the auspices of the "national operations faculty" to establish what lessons can be learnt not just in preventing, but also in bringing to a rapid conclusion, the kind of disorder that we saw on Saturday evening.
"I shall wish to discuss with ACPO how we might build on that initiative, pooling such experience and ensuring that operational commanders can find sources of advice immediately in helping them to deal with these exceptionally difficult situations.
"The vast majority of people in our society, regardless of their ethnic background, want the same things for themselves and their children. As we share common goals, it has to be to find a way of working and living together successfully.
"Our aim is to create an inclusive society, local communities which meet the needs of all groups, and a dialogue that transcends differences.
- Organised thugs from whatever background or standpoint undermine that possibility and that is why the threat from them must be met head on.
"The message from today is that we will not accept the destruction of hard-won improvements in the most difficult areas of our country; nor would local people forgive us if we do not provide them with the protection that they deserve."
5.5 p.m.
Lord Cope of Berkeley: My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating that Statement. Your Lordships' House contains quite a number of Peers who have great experience of race relations matters, including, from today, the noble Lord, Lord Ouseley, who is most welcome. We all look forward in particular to seeing his report on the situation in Bradford, which was written before these outrages but which is, nevertheless, very up to date, important and relevant.
Does the Minister recognise that we fully agree with the Home Secretary that there are no excuses for that violence and destruction, and that the restoration of order is a pre-requisite for dealing with any social and economic ills?
As the Statement made clear, the outrages fundamentally involve criminal violence, which must always be resisted. Of course, we must also try to understand the causes of the start of the violence and the reasons why it spread so fiercely and lasted for so long. Those reasons undoubtedly lie partly in the difficult economic and social problems in Bradford, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, referred earlier.
It appears that the violence was launched by a small minority of extremists. Everyone supported the ban on marches and the National Front march appears to have been successfully stopped. Can the Minister say how far extremists from the Anti-Nazi League were responsible for starting the trouble, as the Statement hinted?
Can the Minister also say something about police numbers in West Yorkshire? I refer not to police numbers during these difficult times--there appears to be an entirely sufficient number of police dealing with the situation--but to the numbers required to carry out normal police duties and to ensure that relations between the police and the public are improved.
On water cannon and other strong measures that have been mentioned in connection with this matter, can the Minister confirm that their adoption would be a decision for chief constables and not primarily a matter for the Home Secretary? It is unacceptable for our police to have to stand and be bombarded hour after hour with petrol bombs, bricks and worse missiles, until 164 of them and several police horses are injured. We would support any chief constable who thought that water cannon or other measures would be of use in such situations. The police have the relevant experience and responsibility and they should take that decision.
Our sympathy is with the injured police and with the citizens of Bradford whose lives have been so appallingly disrupted.
5.10 p.m.
Lord McNally: My Lords, on occasions such as this we want to do more than just go through the motions of applauding the courage of the police when faced with such a situation. When one is on the front line it must be extremely frightening, and the way the police behaved on that night shows the discipline of our forces. We also express sympathy for the wider community.
We welcome the intention to further co-ordinate government action and to review community policy in these matters. But I confess that I worry a little about the tone of some of the statements that have been made since this riot. An American observer once said, "It is possible in a democracy to build your support on the un-young, the un-poor and the un-black. But do not be surprised if your cities burn". Policies have to go beyond middle England to areas of real deprivation if the police and other authorities are not to be faced with the problems that were faced last weekend.
We must therefore go beyond the ritual condemnation of senseless violence and criminality--"We will not tolerate wanton destruction and violence"--that is the given in any society. We must look to our new Home Secretary for the imagination to go beyond those stock responses. And does the Minister agree that this is a good time to place on record the immense contribution that our Asian community has made to our society over the past 30 or 40 years, from the virtual saving of our corner shop by numerous Mr. Patels, to some of our most successful job-creating entrepreneurs?
That is why the statistic given earlier today was all the more shocking. Was not the Minister truly appalled at the statistic that only 31 per cent of the 16 to 25 year-old male ethnics in Bradford are employed? Is not that the kind of issue that really demands indignation and immediate action? Have the Government ruled out a Scarman-type inquiry that would allow a broader look at the issue in Bradford and other northern cities?
While on the question of support for the police, does the Minister worry, as I do, that yet again this is a white police force trying to provide law and order? This is a city which has had a substantial ethnic community over a long period, yet so far as I can see--it would be interesting to see the statistics--I would guess that less than 3 per cent of that force come from the ethnic community. The police must take on board the reality that they have to recruit from the ethnic communities if they are going to be able to police effectively.
The noble Lord mentioned our latest recruit, the noble Lord, Lord Ouseley, and I hope we are able to use his experience and expertise. Even the leaked parts of his report show what a deep and fundamental problem needs to be tackled here, both in education
and housing, and the virtual apartheid that is taking place in Bradford and other communities. Those are the seeds of disaster and violence.We must look at how we deal with this problem that has occurred in the north of England. It is a community brought up to work in a textile industry that no longer exists. That generation may have brought with it the usual passivity of an immigrant community, grateful for the opportunity to work, but the sons and daughters who see themselves as Britons are not going to tolerate second-class citizenship; constant jibing of "Paki"; the sport of "Paki-bashing". We must deal with bringing those communities into our society and we will not do it if we only employ 31 per cent of them.
Finally, in relation to the activities of the extremist groups, in such a tinder box both the far right and the far left will make mischief. So is the Minister aware that we believe that all the democratic parties should stand shoulder to shoulder at these times and resist the damage to our communities done by those extremists? There is a sense of urgency and we must move beyond the soundbites of how tough we are going to be to a real programme to deal with some of the underlying problems. That will give a greater sense of confidence, not least to those communities themselves.
5.15 p.m.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, I am grateful for the overall tone of the two responses from the noble Lords, Lord Cope and Lord McNally. We have tried to go beyond the soundbite--I do not believe it was a criticism, though it is easy for people to slip into that.
But there will not be any excuses and the restoration of law and order is a pre-requisite for doing the other works. That is fundamental; otherwise the public at large will feel that they are being deserted or held to ransom and we are not prepared to accept that.
I do not know and have no information to share with the House regarding the precise nature of the Anti-Nazi League demonstration. It is quite clear that the march ban was accepted. But there is evidence from other parts of the country which shows that those who wish to oppose the far right from the far left seek to have their demonstration even though the other one was banned. That has led to difficulties, as was said by one of the newly-elected Members of the other place in a newspaper yesterday. That happened in his constituency before the election. There have been difficulties throughout the year. It is not wholly related to the past few weeks.
The noble Lord, Lord Cope, asked about police numbers in West Yorkshire. He is absolutely right. To the best of our knowledge on the evenings and days in question, as indeed as I speak now, there is no issue in regard to adequate numbers. The numbers were supplied. They had been requested under mutual aid and the police were out on the street. But I believe that the noble Lord was asking a wider question and he deserves an answer.
I can give figures for Greater Manchester and Lancashire if required. In West Yorkshire the police had 4,815 officers on 31st March this year, which is
seven fewer than in March 2000 and 394 fewer than in March 1997. There does not seem to be a reason why West Yorkshire has experienced such a large drop compared with the Lancashire constabulary, which has eight more than in 1997, and Greater Manchester with only 13 fewer than in 1997. There is no budgetary reason and nothing untoward about the money that has been allocated. I understand that there will be an extra 92 recruits from the Crime Fighting Fund allocation and probably a net gain of 200 this year. But in response to the disturbances and the current situation there is no shortage of police.I confirm also, in respect of water cannon and other police equipment, that they are operational decisions for the chief constable. They are not matters for Ministers. Ministers do not police cities; the police police the cities. That is the way it has been and will continue to be. It is our job to provide the resources for the chief constables, but those are wholly operational matters. I share the views of the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, that he expressed when answering questions in relation to baton rounds. They kill people. But no one is raising that issue.
In respect of our attempts to co-ordinate, Whitehall has produced a large number of programmes. Neighbourhood renewal programmes are taking place in some 80 inner city areas of the country, divided up based on the enumeration districts. Therefore, we are attempting to target those areas as well.
Among 12 major English cities, Bradford has below average rates of violent crime, burglary and vehicle crime, but surveys show that the perception of crime and disorder is increasing. There is no doubt that drug misuse is a major concern and heroin is a rapidly increasing problem. There has also been a steady increase in racially-motivated incidents reported to the police.
I regret that I was unable to remain in the Chamber for the whole of Question Time today, but I am aware of the figures given by my noble friend Lady Hollis. They are appalling. The greatest asset of any country is the capacity and willingness of its people to work. If that asset is wasted, people's lives and economic advancement are thrown away. Therefore, getting people into work--sometimes with a carrot-and-stick approach--is fundamental. Part of the direction of many of the social security benefit changes in the past four years were made so that people can no longer say, "I am better off not working". However, there are still pockets of concern and those pockets can be split in terms of the ethnic origins of people. However, that is outwith the mainstream of policy and we must certainly do more in that area.
I regret that I do not have figures on the make-up of the police force. I do not argue with the assertion in the question. The numbers of those in the police force from ethnic minorities are extremely low. However, I do not necessarily accept that in order to do a professional job we need to have a mixed police force, although a mixed force would send out the right signals in a mixed community that is segregated by housing policies.
In many of our inner cities there is a completely false market in housing costs. Houses that are worth twopence-halfpenny sell for thousands of pounds. Those in the ethnic communities want to live together, not just for reasons of safety, but to be near to their families, near to the mosque or the temple and near to schools. That results in segregation in our cities. Certain areas are almost nominated de facto for certain communities, which is not good for multicultural living in this country. In many of our inner cities there is a complete distortion of the housing market which becomes a real problem when one tries to carry out housing regeneration programmes. However, I do not have an answer. People can ask questions about this matter, but, as the Home Secretary said, it would be better if people came up with a few answers.
It is important that democratic parties stick together. It is now July and before long we shall be into the local elections for next year. There is no time to waste. Democratic parties must come together and work with their respective supporters to push forward the democratic credo: votes in ballot boxes, mature argument, good investment in the communities, in education, in the economy and in health, and a fundamental head-on meeting of the anti-democratic forces. We do not need to snuff out or to ban anti-democratic forces, but we need to meet them head-on with the arguments. If that is carried out in a mature and a responsible manner, backed up with all the programmes that government, both local and national, are carrying out, we have a reasonable chance of achieving wider support from the community to protect and advance itself.
5.24 p.m.
The Lord Bishop of Manchester: My Lords, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Bradford regrets that he is unable to be present today. As noble Lords will understand, he is fully engaged. He sends his apologies to the House and trusts his brother from across the Pennines to speak the truth on his behalf. That is quite an undertaking when one remembers the red rose and the white rose.
In the Manchester diocese we have experience of recent difficulties in Oldham. Burnley is just up the road and now we have Bradford. I understand that I must ask questions and not make a speech. I hope that the Minister will take seriously the complexity of the situation. I mention "complexity" in two or three different contexts. One is that the young people involved in the Bradford riots were not simply Asians, but a mixture of Asians, Afro-Caribbeans and white Brits. In other words, we are talking about young people as well as ethnicity.
Secondly, the experience in some of the other communities has been that young people may want to live next to the mosque, with people from their own country, but this generation of young people, who were born in Britain, no longer feel obedient to their parents and grandparents or to the imams in the mosque, as did previous generations of people from Asia or the Afro-Caribbean. Having put up with much
racism from white people over the years, they are now sufficient in numbers to exert their strength and to copy the yobbish behaviour of some of our white teenagers. We must admit and own that.As to the complexity of the situation, the leaders are condemnatory of the violence, but feel equally powerless to exert leverage on young people in the way in which we, miles away from Bradford, may imagine. Do we understand the complexity of the young people? Do we understand the complexity of acquiring new jobs for Asian and other young people in Oldham and in Bradford?
Yesterday we were discussing shareholders and millions of pounds and I had come from a hearing on debt and poverty. But will people invest in Oldham and Bradford now? Local authorities and government must take the initiative to help in relation to unemployment.
Thirdly, there is the complexity of the police. We hope that the police will be able to recruit many ethnic young people. Having lived and preached in Manchester and having met regularly with senior police officers and chiefs of police across the North West, I ask whether people are aware of the complexity of attracting young people of ethnic groups into the police force.
Finally, comments have been made about the tone. Any talk about ethnic relations in England now is fraught with difficulty and tension. Having recently listened to the noble Lord, Lord Ouseley, lecturing in Salford about the brittleness of community relations and sensitivity, we need an inquiry that goes beyond the sound-bite, deep into our young people's anxieties, despairs and alienation. Who will do that and how will it be done? I am glad to hear that the Government have in mind how it will be done and which young people from local communities in Bradford will be involved.
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