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Lord Roberts of Conwy: Of course one welcomes the reduction in the number of regulatory bodies from five to one and this compact body consisting of between three and six members, certainly at its initial stages. But the immediate question that arises is whether a body of this kind can perform such functions as we know it will have. For example, I note from page 80 of the White Paper that the Government will expect Ofcom to develop good links with the devolved assemblies and representatives of the English regions, but it is by no means clear just how that is to be achieved.
I am glad to see the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh of Haringey, in his place. In his closing speech at Second Reading he said that the Government realised that there was a problem with the national and regional aspect, which is obviously the point on which I wish to dwell. He said,
- "I say that ways will have to be found of dealing with the interests of regions and countries, because they, of course, are essential elements of public service broadcasting".--[Official Report, 15/10/01; col. 466.]
One cannot really represent those regional and national interests with a board of this size. It may well be that, as the noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, said, ways will have to be found and that the Government already have some ideas to deal with the interests of regions and countries. Perhaps the Government will share those ideas with the Committee.
I have looked at the Towers Perrin report and the template offered as a possible framework for Ofcom. Of the five operating areas, the "audience interests" unit described on page 29 appears to be the most promising as far as concerns the nations and regions. That description reads:
- "This area"--
- would be responsible for content regulation issues relating to TV licensing, enforcement and sanctions ... The unit would also be responsible for encouraging media literacy among citizens and outreach activities to audiences in the UK's nations and regions. Further work will clearly need to be done on the location of such activities. Audience interests would need to work very closely with networks/service and spectrum planning, communications strategy and planning, and the Radio Group".
Television and broadcasting are not devolved matters in Wales. I am not sure about the position in Scotland. The role of the National Assembly in this area is very limited. It is, nevertheless, traditionally a very important area, not just in relation to the Welsh
language but in relation to social, sporting and cultural life as a whole in Wales. Television and broadcasting have been very formative influences on many aspects of national life in Wales, and I am sure that the same is true of Scotland, Northern Ireland and the English regions.The responses to the White Paper indicated that,
- "Numerous respondents believed membership of Ofcom and advisory panels should reflect the cultural diversity of nations, regions and communities".
Several respondents argued that Ofcom should maintain local offices in the nations and regions of the UK and that regulatory functions should be devolved to such offices as far as possible. Again, a footnote indicates that among the supporters of that particular statement are the Welsh Language Board, the Welsh Advisory Committee on Telecommunications and others.
It is clear that as yet the national and regional dimension has not been properly grasped. That I regard as a defect of the Bill. I must tell Ministers that concern is growing over the threat to national and regional output posed by company amalgamations, in particular in television. It is vitally important that such programme output should be safeguarded. To ensure that, the national and regional dimension must be represented at the very top of the new organisation by people who are truly sensitive to those needs. In brief, I do not think that that can be achieved, even at this stage, with a body that is to be limited to six members. National and regional interests cannot properly be represented other than at board level.
Baroness Blackstone: Perhaps I may begin by responding to the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay. The figure of three to six members has not simply been plucked out of the air. Careful thought has gone into the decision. Indeed, I believe that the noble Baroness quoted industry support for the initial small numbers. At this stage we want the board to be small and flexible so that it carries out its work in a cost-effective manner. Again I should remind the Committee that, at the outset, Ofcom will have a single function; that is, to prepare itself to assume its other regulatory functions at a later date. I believe that that is also relevant to the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy. During the initial phase, it will not be necessary for the board to contain the full range of expertise that it will eventually require once it assumes its full regulatory responsibilities. Perhaps I may also mention that during the preparatory period the number of staff within Ofcom will be small and therefore the possibility of appointing further members from that staff would be constrained.
A board membership of between three and six, as set out in the Bill, will provide Ofcom with sufficient expertise to oversee its preparatory work. Clause 1(7) of the Bill provides the Secretary of State with the power to modify the minimum and maximum number of members of the board, a point which my noble friend Lord Borrie has made absolutely clear.
In response to a further point made by the noble Baroness, it is anticipated that this provision might be used once Ofcom is ready to assume the regulatory functions which will be conferred on it by the main communications Bill. Not until that legislation has been debated in Parliament and granted Royal Assent will the board need to be expanded. At that point, of course the board will require a wider span of skills and expertise.
Perhaps I may turn to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy. Of course we want to ensure that legitimate interests, including those of the devolved administrations, are represented in the sense that those interests are taken into account within Ofcom. However, the main communications Bill will set out proposals designed to ensure that such interests are properly reflected. If I may say so, I think that the noble Lord is somewhat jumping the gun here in wishing to go into detail at this stage.
I agree with the noble Lord that there will be certain interests which Ofcom will have to take into account, but again, it is not important that it does so at this stage; that is, when it is only preparing to take on its regulatory functions. The noble Lord implied that the national and regional dimension has been ignored. I do not believe it is true to say that; the dimension has been grasped. It is correct that consumer interests in the provision both of telecommunications networks and services are similar wherever they are located in the country. However, on the cultural side, the Government accept entirely that the media play an important part in the articulation of regional issues and in creating a local cultural identity. We accept the need for such interests to be reflected in areas relating to issues of content, as is currently the case in the work of the existing regulators.
Perhaps I may end by saying that the main communications Bill will set out how we propose to put into practice ways of dealing with the issue of the regulatory functions of Ofcom.
5.15 p.m.
The Duke of Montrose: Before the noble Baroness sits down, have I understood her to say that, when the time comes to expand the number of members of the board, we shall then have a further chance to debate the matter? However, if that decision is brought in by statutory instrument, how much debate will we have?
Baroness Blackstone: It is always open to noble Lords to hold a debate on a statutory instrument. Let me make it absolutely clear that an opportunity will be provided to debate these issues.
Lord Roberts of Conwy: I must press the noble Baroness on the issue I have raised. How are the
promises of the White Paper to be fulfilled other than through the membership of the Ofcom board? I need hardly remind the Minister of what is contained in the White Paper:
- "We will expect Ofcom to develop good links with the relevant policy committees and executives of the devolved assemblies and with representatives of the English regions".
Baroness Blackstone: When the White Paper was published, the then Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport made the position absolutely clear; namely, that Ofcom would maintain a presence in each of the devolved nations. That is how it will be addressed.
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