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Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that we would be able to stimulate more interest in and demand for broadband access if prices were lower than is presently the case? What plans do the Government have to get the prices down?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, there is no question that lower prices on broadband stimulate
demand. However, it is also important to realise that the relationship of the broadband price must be set against Internet connection charges. In this country we have a low Internet connection charge. Because of that we have achieved a high penetration of Internet access. Other countries do better on broadband, but that is because in order to secure a lower Internet connection charge, it is necessary to go directly to broadband. When looking at the issue, while undoubtedly we would like to see lower prices for broadband, we must accept that those charges form a part of the total pricing structure.
Baroness Miller of Hendon: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his noble friend Lord McIntosh of Haringey responded to a very similar Question on 28th March this year? His noble friend then said that the delay over the unbundling of the local loop was not due to BT or Oftel and certainly not to the Government. He said that it was due to commercial interests. Can the Minister tell the House what are those commercial interests and whose position they represent?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, as always, my noble friend was entirely right in his response to the Question. It is the case that local loop unbundling can be put into the entire range of exchanges which now have ADSL. The alternative is for companies to use the wholesale ADSL service which is provided by BT at #30 per month. On that basis, a commercial decision must be taken as to whether expensive equipment should be put into local exchanges as an alternative to using the wholesale ADSL service from BT. Many companies in the telecommunications industry feel that this is not the time to make large capital investments in activities which they can buy in from elsewhere. Furthermore, it may well be that the possibility of competition has had the effect of ensuring that the price which BT offers for wholesale ADSL services has already done the job.
Lord Bruce of Donington: My Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that there is the possibility of a quite civilised and tranquil existence outside the realms of e-commerce?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, when answering questions on ADSL, one is very aware of that.
The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, I apologise for coming back to the noble Lord once more, but I wonder whether he could address the first point that I put to him in my question. How does the figure of 66 per cent access translate into the actual take-up of broadband services?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, about 1 per cent of people with telephone lines use ADSL or broadband services. That figure is towards the bottom end of the international league. While Germany does very well as far as concerns broadband, if one takes broadband and the Internet together the UK does better. One must take into account the total picture.
World Trade Organisation: Doha Conference
3 p.m.
Baroness Whitaker asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What was the outcome in relation to international development of the Doha World Trade Organisation meeting.
The Minister for Trade (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean): My Lords, the ministerial declaration launched a development-focused trade round which we believe offers the best route for the developing world to escape from poverty. In addition, the WTO ministerial conference agreed a decision on implementation-related issues and concerns to address many of the matters raised by developing countries over the operation of existing WTO agreements, and a declaration on the TRIPS agreement and public health which clarifies the action which WTO members can take to secure access to essential medicines during public health crises.
Baroness Whitaker: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that positive Answer; indeed, I congratulate her on the part played by the Government in securing a fairly good round at WTO. In connection with intellectual property and health, does the Minister agree that it is rather regrettable that the declaration which would prevent poorer countries being deprived of access to cheaper medicines is political rather than legally binding?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for her kind congratulations, but I regret that I cannot agree with the purport of her question. The declaration on TRIPS and public health was a breakthrough. Skilful negotiation has ensured that we have found a way to balance the incentives for research and development to protect the health of future generations and the public health of the present generation. I draw to the attention of my noble friend the observation of Oxfam on 15th November 2001 that the declaration was,
- Xa big step forward in the battle for affordable medicine".
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, as I indicated, together with their colleagues in the WTO the Government believed that it was very important in this trade round to emphasise that it was concerned with development. That was where we concentrated most of our fire. Before we went to Doha I invited every one of the Commonwealth high commissioners to see me. If we are successful in the negotiations that flow from Doha we hope to be able to lift some 300 million people out of poverty as a result of halving the tariffs in trade around the world and, consequently, approximately 150 billion dollars should go to developing countries. The right reverend Prelate raises a huge number of other issues. This agreement covers so many different issues that all of us must prioritise what comes first. We must balance what is important to the United Kingdom, including our agricultural community, and developing countries. We hope to discuss that as the development round continues.
Lord Barnett: My Lords, has my noble friend seen some of the evidence submitted to your Lordships' Committee on Economic Affairs on the question of globalisation which was discussed at great length in Doha? That evidence shows that while globalisation generally has been of considerable importance to developing countries the very poorest have not been helped that much. What do Her Majesty's Government have in mind to help?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, of the 142 countries which were able to reach agreement in Doha approximately two-thirds were developing countries. Of the 38 countries which have applied to join the WTO, the majority are developing or least developed countries. I suggest to your Lordships that the least developed and developing countries believe that there are benefits to be gained from joining the World Trade Organisation. In addition, the United Kingdom has increased the capacity that it has resourced for developing countries to argue for what they believe to be important in the WTO. My right honourable friend Clare Short was able to make that announcement which was of very great importance to us before we went to Doha.
Baroness Miller of Hendon: My Lords, does the Minister recall that when she made a Statement to the House on 15th November I observed that on an earlier occasion Commissioner Lamy had defended farm subsidies and asked whether there was any truth in the suggestion that the French had signed the declaration only after they had been given assurances that it would not prejudice the outcome of the farm trade talks? Is the noble Baroness now in a position to give me an answer to that question? Can she tell the House whether there was any understanding, either formal or informal, with the French about agricultural subsidies?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I cannot claim to have been at every single point where people may have had discussions in the corridors, or to know exactly what was said by every person who took part in the negotiations, but I can tell the noble Baroness that the agricultural section of the WTO declaration of Doha commits members,
- Xto comprehensive negotiations aimed at: substantial improvements in market access; reductions of, with a view to phasing out, all forms of export subsidies; and substantial reductions in trade-distorting domestic support".
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