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Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, we constantly ask both sides in this terrible conflict to consider the difficulties of turning back from a cycle of continuing violence. We constantly put before them the absolute necessity of a ceasefire if there are to be discussions about the future. The United Kingdom is possibly in a particular position in this respect because of our own very sad recent history with our experiences
in Northern Ireland. Perhaps that gives us the experience to say that, whatever the cycle of violence, nobody should use it as an excuse for not bending every effort possible to work for a ceasefire and to persuade the people of good will, who undoubtedly exist on both sides of the conflict, to work for peace and to do what the noble Lord made clear—that is, to stop teaching hatred to children. That is one of the basic starting points in putting right what has gone so very wrong.
The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, Mr Sharon wishes the Palestinian Authority to lock up terrorists and he bombs the police posts and security headquarters which will deal with the terrorists. Can the noble Baroness agree with the position of Shimon Peres, which is that the Palestinian Authority must be supported? After all, we in the EU have maintained the authority's institutions. The port was bombed and completely destroyed. I saw that place only a few weeks ago. That is another institution. Are we going to see destroyed all the institutions that we helped to sustain or are we going to accept that there is one party to the settlement which is ready to come to terms and another which is insisting on its own form of state terrorism?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, on both sides of this terrible conflict we have to look to those who want a long-term settlement to help work towards peace. We should not be concentrating on apportioning the tally of blame at the moment. We need to concentrate on trying to stop the cycle of violence. The more we talk about the tally of blame, the more there is a body count, if I may put it that way, of what has gone wrong, and the more one feeds the hatred that has grown up on both sides.
Part of what we have learned is that there has to come a time when we are able to say to the people of good will on both sides that those perpetrating the dreadful crimes must be put beyond the ability to do that and that Israel has the right to live in peace within its own borders. But we also hope that Israel will return to the negotiating table (on the basis of the Mitchell recommendations and the Tenet recommendations which led to them in terms of trying to establish peace) because there is really no alternative to finding a way through this, other than more and more bloodshed.
Lord King of Bridgwater: My Lords, the tone of these exchanges shows that no one in your Lordships' House is unaware of the extraordinary gravity of the situation. We may be on the edge of an abyss and it is difficult to know whether there can be a pulling back when the hatred is so deep.
Obviously the situation has serious implications for the coalition and neighbouring territories, not merely Jordan, which must be at considerable risk in the present tensions and challenges. One has a sense of shock and horror and feels the greatest sympathy for the casualties and the human suffering in Israel last weekend.
At the same time, another casualty for Israel may be the impact of public opinion. Some of your Lordships may have had the chance to listen to the exchanges in the other place and will have heard the lack of sympathy expressed for the Israeli position at a time when maximum sympathy would be expected.
The Minister's right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary responded with great vigour to a question about Iraq and demanded that Iraq observes United Nations Security Council resolutions in respect of weapons inspection in its programme of weapons of mass destruction. I strongly endorse that, but the observation of UN Security Council resolutions does not extend merely to Iraq. For them to be observed by Israel would be a major step forward.
It is difficult to know what resources the Palestinian Authority has, but President Arafat must be seen to be seeking to address the challenge presented by terrorists. That must be accompanied by a positive sign from Israel, perhaps in the area of settlements, to give Palestinians and Arabs the confidence that there will be a response to a demonstration from them of their determination to tackle terrorism.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, sadly, I agree that we are on the edge of an abyss, as the noble Lord said. The situation is extremely serious and has terrible implications not only for those living in the area of the Palestinian Authority in Israel but for surrounding countries, such as Jordan. I agree with the noble Lord that the possibility of the spiral of violence going beyond its current borders is very worrying.
There were times in the recent past when the violence appeared to be lessening, such as before the assassination of Minister Ze'evi. It appeared to be lessening when the United States suggested that General Zinni and Ambassador Burns would go there. On both occasions there were terrible acts of violence by suicide bombers. Recently, my right honourable friend visited Shimon Peres who spoke of his concerns and deep gloom that every time one thinks there is a window of opportunity for negotiation, suicide bombings intervene.
Of course the noble Lord, Lord King, is right about United Nations Security Council resolutions. I am sure that he listened carefully to my right honourable friend's Statement in which those important resolutions were mentioned. My right honourable friend will be seeing Secretary of State Powell tomorrow and he will talk to Minister Vedrine of France and Minister Schroder of Germany this evening. I am sure that all our allies will be working together to see what they can do. The noble Lord is right about settlements, which is why we attached so much importance to the Mitchell recommendations, which stress the crucial importance of freezing the settlements, including what is called the natural growth of such settlements.
It is not a question of not knowing what to do but of knowing exactly how to do it.
Lord Taverne: My Lords, will the Government make it clear to our friends in the United States that while we
offer our full support in their campaign against terrorism, we shall not support them if they appear to be giving unqualified support to the actions of President Sharon? Some of the Government's statements seem to suggest that they are going back on the dual policy of supporting both security for Israel and justice for Palestine.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, Her Majesty's Government will proceed, as always, on the basis of international law. We shall also proceed on the basis of evidence of terrorist activity and the links to such activity in any part of the world. Our sovereign foreign policy is conducted on that basis, not on the diktat of any other country. It is important to keep those points clearly in mind. They will inform Her Majesty's Government's decisions in the future as they have done in the past.
Lord Richard: My Lords, of course, my noble friend is right when she says that Israel is entitled to protect her own security. No one would argue with that. The question is whether what it is doing is reasonable and if not, what effect does that have.
I am bound to say that it is extraordinary behaviour to demand that President Arafat should deal with terrorists at precisely the moment when he is being deliberately weakened and humiliated in the eyes of the world. That includes his own people on whom he has to rely if he is to deal with terrorists within the Palestinian entity.
I should like my noble friend to confirm two things. First, will she say that we do not follow the United States in condemning Mr Arafat as a terrorist and condemning the Palestinian entity as one of the hardest terrorists? Terrorists may be there, but the intent of the Palestinian Government is the important point. Secondly, will my noble friend reiterate in clear terms that President Arafat remains the elected leader of the Palestinian people and is therefore the natural interlocutor in any discussions that take place in the Middle East to try to settle this dreadful dispute?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I had hoped that I had made those points clear, but I shall do so again. We do not believe that it is right to equate Chairman Arafat with terrorist organisations. He is not responsible for suicide bombing. He has condemned terrorism and, as I reminded your Lordships, he quickly condemned the murder of Minister Ze'evi on the day that it happened. He is the elected head of the Palestinian Authority and the representative of the only organisation currently in a position to negotiate anything on behalf of the Palestinian people.
My noble friend is right that Israel is entitled to take steps to ensure its security and to safeguard itself against terrorist attack. My noble friend is also right when he says that those responses should be proportionate and restrained. Civilian casualties should be avoided and international law should be upheld. Having said that, it is also our view that Chairman Arafat must do more to apprehend the men
of violence and make sure that they stay apprehended so that they are unable to carry out those terrible crimes that completely undermine any sort of peace process in the Middle East.
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