| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Brett: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. The Minister assures us about the role of the Chief Minister. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe, reminded us that in 1984 Sir Joshua Hassan played a full part. Is the role proposed for the present Chief Minister of Gibraltar exactly the same as in 1984? We know that the Brussels communique led
to discussions being resumed last year. Is it reasonable to believe that the role of Gibraltar's Chief Minister will be the same in 2001 as it was in 1984?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I am not familiar with the exact constitutional position of Mr Hassan at that point. There are two flags here but three voices. I hope that that helps the noble Lord. A distinctive voice is guaranteed to Gibraltar. Gibraltar does not have to remain silent when my right honourable friends are negotiating and talking in these fora. Gibraltar will have a distinctive voice of its own. The Chief Minister of Gibraltar will sit alongside the Foreign Secretary behind the British flag. I hope that that I am as clear as I can be about what is being offered.
Lord Hoyle: My Lords, will my noble friend explain that? She says that he would sit behind the British Minister, but would he be party to the final agreement?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: The Minister will sit alongside—not behind in a position of less dignity or importance, but behind the British flag. I cannot say whether or not he then has the right to resile from the agreement, but I understand that that is not what he seeks or what he wants to secure in taking part.
The noble Lord, Lord Astor, asked me to assure your Lordships that nothing would be hidden in these talks. Nothing will be hidden. If Mr Caruana were to participate in these discussions, he would know that nothing was being hidden. That is an important point.
The noble Baroness, Lady Park, was right that Her Majesty's Government believe that much is to be gained for the people of Gibraltar. We would not be making this suggestion if that was not our belief. We wish not only to end the obstacles that have plagued their everyday lives; we are thinking of the future when goods, people and services can flow freely in and out of Spain. Gibraltar can capitalise on the excellent start that it has made as a financial centre to become a major centre for financial services in the region. There is also the agreement to allow full development of the airport where matters are currently at an impasse.
Gibraltar already enjoys a substantial measure of autonomy and Her Majesty's Government would like the people of Gibraltar to exercise greater control over their daily lives. This has to be exercised in accordance with our other treaty obligations which, in Gibraltar's case, includes the Treaty of Utrecht. It is not good enough to say that we can sweep all that on one side because human rights issues that are grossly outmoded are involved. It is a treaty and the Government do not set treaties on one side when they go past their sell-by date. We have to acknowledge that treaty. Independence could be an option only if it was done with the agreement of the Spanish Government.
The noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, my noble friend Lord Hoyle, the noble Lord, Lord Astor, and many others asked about voting rights in the European Parliament. Let me make it clear that we are committed to extending the European parliamentary franchise to Gibraltar in time for the elections to the
European Parliament in 2004. To that end, Her Majesty's Government have now decided to seek legislative time in order to introduce the domestic legislation for that purpose. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Astor, did not expect me to be more precise than that. It will be done in time for the election. The decision to extend the European parliamentary franchise to Gibraltar by enacting domestic legislation is a matter for the United Kingdom alone. In preparing to take that step, we have rightly been in contact with all the interested parties, including Spain.I thought that the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, was a little unfair in implying that the Gibraltarians were not implementing European Union legislation. Their record is generally very good and it has improved considerably since the mid-1990s. They transpose about 50 directives a year, which is not so different from the United Kingdom or, indeed, other countries in the EU.
My noble friend Lord Hardy of Wath was right that after so many years of dispute, attitudes on both sides have hardened. For our policy to succeed, we need some new thinking—not only in the United Kingdom, not only on the Rock, but crucially, in Spain. It has to win the hearts and minds of the people of Gibraltar if the measure is to be a success. The noble and learned
Lord, Lord Howe, was right that the time has come for Spain to show its new attitude through action. We have seen the important steps that it has taken over the increase in the number of telephone numbers available. Again, the noble Lord, Lord Astor, was right when he said that we now have to look to the Spanish Government to take more steps in normalising their relationship with Gibraltar.I disagree again with the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire. The border delays are bad. They are now what we consider unacceptable, as my noble friend Lord Hoyle made clear. The matter has been raised by the Prime Minister, Ministers on many occasions, by the Ambassador in Madrid and, most recently, by my right honourable friend Peter Hain on 10th December.
We also need to encourage the people of Gibraltar to have an open mind in the current talks. They need to look at the matter rationally and have an informed discussion about a future in which their Government can take a full and active part. In conclusion, I ask the House for support in what the Government believe to be a realistic policy, to take advantage of the real opportunity that now exists to forge the future, which we believe will be demonstrably better for all the parties involved, especially the people of Gibraltar.
- House adjourned at nineteen minutes past nine o'clock.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |