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Lord Desai: My Lords, not a coffee-table book, a very dull but contentful book.
Lord Redesdale: My Lords, obviously, as a professor of economics at the London School of Economics, the noble Lord has spotted a gap in the market that I failed to spot.
I congratulate the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Guthrie of Craigiebank, on his maiden speech, especially because he used it to champion the cause of the Pashtun service of the BBC World Service, which
has done so much to provide information to those in Afghanistan. Indeed, by making his maiden speech tonight, the noble and gallant Lord ensured that we had the benefit of four former Chiefs of the Defence Staff speaking in the debate.The collapse of the Taliban so quickly has been described by many noble Lords, and by many in the media, as surprising. However, the power of the ordnance dropped by the Americans—especially the truly terrifying Daisycutter—achieved the objective of breaking the Taliban. Few forces in the world could have stood up to such battering. However troops on the ground were needed to take control, and it was the Northern Alliance who were there and able to do so. It was a vain expectation that the Northern Alliance would not occupy the capital when the BBC had spearheaded its capture, but leave it for an international force.
However, the far greater problem of who will run Afghanistan remains. The achievement of the United Nations in Bonn and the formation of an interim government should not be underestimated, but it remains unclear how far their writ will run on the ground in Afghanistan. Boots on the ground will be needed. We on these Benches welcome the British commitment to send troops set out in the Prime Minister's Statement today.
The shape and membership of a peacekeeping force has yet to be fleshed out. It is essential that that force has a clearly defined mission. Will it be escorting humanitarian convoys? Will it be patrolling? Will it be manning checkpoints? Will it be mandated to intervene if it witnesses gross breaches of human rights? Will it have armoured personnel carriers? It will need robust rules of engagement if it is to be successful. Most importantly, it will need to know why it is there in the first place. I do not expect the Minister to answer those questions; they are rhetorical, especially as an assessment is currently being undertaken by Major-General McColl.
That assessment will have a political as well a military basis. The peacekeeping force will need to know where it is to operate. The size of the area of its responsibility will determine the numbers. It has been estimated that policing the whole of Afghanistan would require a force of about 100,000 troops. It is unlikely in the present climate that the international community would commit such a number, which suggests that the initial deployment may be much smaller and localised in its remit.
It has been suggested that a force for Kabul would be a sensible place to start. In fact, Kabul seems to have fewer problems than does most of the rest of the country. Nevertheless, it is obviously sensible to promote stability in the capital, and it would be a good place from which to direct the security of the humanitarian aid operation.
British forces, and those of other European nations, have plenty of experience of such operations, especially in Bosnia and Kosovo. I take issue with the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, who said that the Europeans may wilt. If the Americans move on to
Iraq, the Europeans would wilt, and we on these Benches would wilt with them. However, it should be noted that members of the European Union have stood shoulder to shoulder with the Americans and provided assistance in the campaign. The Americans understand what assistance they have given.Britain cannot go it alone. As other noble Lords have cited the current Chief of the Defence Staff, Admiral Sir Michael Boyce, it is fair for me to do so. He has warned of the danger of getting,
- "our hand caught in the mangle",
Many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Chalfont and Lord King, and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, have suggested that a new defence review is needed—perhaps the son of the Strategic Defence Review or the grandson of Options for Change. I do not suggest that we go down that route immediately, but it is perhaps as well to start to consider the outline of such a review.
Mr Karzai's administration will assume its responsibilities on 22nd December, but it is unclear whether it will be assuming power. The warlords that ruled the roost before the advent of the Taliban in 1996, who were responsible for the levelling of Kabul and 50,000 deaths, are back in charge. Gul Agha in Khandahar, Ismail Khan in Herat, General Dostum in Mazar and Haji Abdul Qadir in Jalalabad. Mr. Karzai will have to treat with those people if he is effectively to exercise his mandate.
Afghanistan has not had a strong central government for decades. We cannot expect one overnight. However, the test for Mr Karzai will come in whether he is able to create the conditions under which the international community is able to look after the immediate humanitarian needs of his people. That issue has been raised by many noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich.
The immediate problem is getting humanitarian aid in. It is unsurprising that lawlessness has come to Afghanistan and that aid delivery mechanisms are difficult to put in place. The aid agencies estimate that 7 million people—about one-third of Afghanistan's population—are classified in the "very high risk" category. The first job of the Karzai administration must be to create the conditions to ensure the swifter delivery of humanitarian aid to all parts of the country.
There is good news according to DfID. The friendship bridge from Uzbekistan is now open; food tonnages entering Afghanistan have doubled in the past two weeks as the World Food Programme has scaled up its operation; and United Nations staff are beginning to return to the cities of Afghanistan in order to oversee distribution.
However, the situation is not clear. The humanitarian situation, particularly in the north, is extremely precarious. The World Food Programme estimates that 2.3 million people in the mountainous areas—that is, areas above 6,000 feet—may soon become stranded and inaccessible to large aid convoys due to the coming of the snow. Indeed, it is only lucky that perhaps due to global warming Afghanistan has had one of the warmest winters on record. When the snows come, air drops may be necessary and questions will be raised about who will fund or carry out those operations.
In initiating the debate, the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, mentioned that this would be a long haul. Estimates for the Bill of reconstruction in Afghanistan have run as high as £25 billion over the next decade. The international community cannot walk away from that bill. Afghanistan has been the breeding ground of terror. It has been shown that instability in Afghanistan can affect every part of the globe. However, one issue has not been discussed openly and it has caused me considerable concern. It is reported that farmers in Afghanistan are already considering next year's crop. They are not considering the planting of food but the planting of poppies. That will have a devastating effect, considering Afghanistan's main contribution to heroin in this country.
8.13 p.m.
Lord Vivian: My Lords, perhaps I may first thank the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, for bringing the debate to our attention today and once again thank her for bringing us up to date in her usual informative, clear and concise way.
Before I go any further, I would like to congratulate the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Guthrie, on his outstanding maiden speech today. His speech was highly significant and informative, and it gave the Government and all noble Lords plenty on which to reflect. There is no doubt that his wisdom, experience and knowledge will be most beneficial to your Lordships' Chamber and, as others have already said, we look forward to his future contributions.
It will come as no surprise to your Lordships when I say that I shall concentrate my remarks on the military aspects of the campaign and touch only briefly on the humanitarian aid aspects because that is really a subject for a separate debate.
Much progress has been made both diplomatically and militarily since our previous debate just over a month ago. We on these Benches have given our complete support to the Government on the actions taken so far and we shall continue to do so. I must at this point say how grateful I am to the Minister for the excellent and informative briefing he arranged for
some of us last week. I would like also to stress how important it is that we, Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, are kept up to date with the current situation and future policy which greatly assists us in our support of the Government.I will not weary your Lordships with repeating yet again the objectives of this campaign which were clearly set out in an FCO document which is held in the Library. However, it is important that we know what has been and has not been achieved so far and that does bear repeating.
We have seen the fall of the Taliban regime, but some well-armed isolated Al'Qaeda groups remain which may offer stiff resistance yet. We have destroyed the training camps and have prevented terrorist training from continuing. The al'Qaeda, it would seem, is in total disarray. It is in retreat and unable to work its network within Afghanistan. We have yet to capture or find the bodies of bin Laden and Mullah Omar. Afghanistan is no longer in a position to be able to harbour or sustain international terrorism.
We have gained the position where the coalition can mount future operations and humanitarian aid can be delivered. Those military achievements are of great significance. And let it not be forgotten that all of them have been achieved in about nine weeks and have been a great contributory factor in making the Bonn meeting take place and its outcome so successful.
It is clear that rapid progress in Afghanistan has been made and momentum is there to drive future policy forward. Those who were faint hearted and doubted the coalition's resolve and tactics have been proved wrong. Furthermore, a clear signal has been sent to those contemplating terrorist actions or sponsoring them that retribution will be swift in the future.
It is worth noting some facts which can be drawn from the campaign so far. First, much of the Taliban collapse can be ascribed to the use of air power, the careful selection of targets and the critical importance of intelligence and aerial surveillance. The revolution in precision bombing has had a profound effect on the conduct of these military operations minimising the number of civilian casualties and yet causing significant casualties to the Taliban both in terms of men and equipment. Air power in the North precipitated the first Taliban retreat and set the scene for the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban forces to make rapid gains. Virtually all the territory and the major cities are now in the hands of the new regime.
Secondly, the need for flexible military capability, backed up by the abilities to deploy rapidly and provide sound and timely intelligence. Special forces are playing a key role in the effective deployment of anti-Taliban forces and the destruction of the enemy. Their effectiveness is out of all proportion to their relatively small numbers and they have been and will continue to be a vital asset in these operations.
In the previous two debates, I drew your Lordships' attention to the essential need for accurate and timely intelligence. I said on both those occasions that
without more money it would be impossible to advise the Government of forthcoming threats and the Armed Forces would be unable to make use of intelligence so essential to successful operations. The extra £20 million recently announced to the intelligence services while a step in the right direction is totally inadequate for the future asymmetric threats with which we may have to contend. A minimum of hundreds of millions of pounds is required now and a substantial increase to the annual budget of the intelligence service will be required.Intelligence is not the only area which requires more funding, as has been said today by noble and gallant Lords. More money is required for all three services if they are to continue to be successful. Without it, one day the Armed Forces could fail in their mission. It will not be their fault or, I believe, the fault of the Ministry of Defence. The fault will lie solely with the Prime Minister and the Treasury and they will be to blame for any operational failure.
I want to turn to what the United Kingdom has contributed to the operation so far. We have deployed some 4,500 members of our Armed Forces since 7th October; a Royal Navy task force remains in the area with a submarine presence; and Tomahawk land attack missiles were fired against the Taliban and Al'Qaeda on the nights of 7th and 13th October.
The task force consists of the aircraft carrier HMS "Illustrious", with a number of helicopters embarked, the assault ship HMS "Fearless", the destroyer HMS "Southampton", the frigate HMS "Cornwall" and seven Royal Fleet Auxiliaries. The Army has provided ground forces from special forces and specialist troops. There are Royal Marines at Bagram airport and lead elements of 40 Commando embarked with the task force for immediate support with the remainder in the United Kingdom at immediate notice.
Six British troops have been injured, and our sympathy and good wishes go to their families.
The Royal Air Force has flown a high proportion of the combat support sorties, and provided Tristar and VC-10 refuelling aircraft, giving refuelling support to the United States carrier-borne aircraft. Sophisticated E3D Sentry surveillance and control aircraft are deployed, as well as Nimrod reconnaissance and Hercules aircraft providing an air transport capability within the area of operations. The Royal Air Force successfully flew the interim government delegates to and from the Bonn conference.
I turn now to the difficult question of further deployment of British troops as part of the International Security Assistance Force. The first question to be asked is why should Britain once again contribute our over-stretched Armed Forces to an international security force, even though we are probably the most capable? Why is it not possible for the French to lead and contribute to this operation? Is it because, in their petty way, they refuse to have troops under the overall command of CENTCOM? Or is it because their Armed Forces are in such disarray, not ready and so ill-prepared? Why is it not possible
for the Germans to lead and contribute to this probable force? Why could not the Americans take command of it, thereby relieving our overstretched army of this commitment?Could the role of the International Security Assistance Force be carried out by a Muslim force led by Turkey, which has already offered to take on this responsibility and has said that it is ready to dispatch troops to Kabul once military operations allow? But would a Muslim force be acceptable to the Afghans?
I have grave reservations about the United Kingdom leading and contributing more troops to this force, even though we are the most experienced and most capable in these matters. In any event, there is a series of questions that need to be answered before any commitments are made or agreed, and I should now like to ask the Minister some of those questions.
Although the United States of America wishes to retain the overall command of this operation through CENTCOM, will it continue to provide air cover, and in what other roles will it be involved? What has been agreed with the Afghan interim government relating to the number of troops to comprise this force, and from what countries are they to come? It is appreciated that France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Australia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Malaysia the USA and Jordan have all volunteered troops.
Who will provide the heavy airlift for the insertion and extraction of the proposed force? Are the British the best suited to this role given that we are involved in search and destroy missions alongside the Americans? Does the interim government want British participation in the force? What will be the roles for the force? What will be its objectives? If the UK is involved in the International Security Assistance Force, how long will it be before British troops can be withdrawn?
I do not expect the Minister to be able to answer all of these questions now, but I should be grateful if he would write to me in due course.
Many noble Lords have spoken with great knowledge and experience about humanitarian aid and I am somewhat hesitant to make any further comments. However, the successful military operations have made it possible for humanitarian aid to start again, and the battle for the hearts and minds of the people of Afghanistan is an essential part of the restructuring of that country.
Food, clothing, medical aid and equipment, and children's school text books, are all being distributed on a large scale. The Friendship Bridge from Uzbekistan has been opened to traffic, and a train carrying 10,000 tonnes of food has crossed into Afghanistan. The Nijni Pyandj river crossing between Tajikistan and Afghanistan has been opened, and barges with humanitarian aid from Russia are crossing the river on their way to Kabul.
International staff have been redeployed to Bamiyan in the central highlands. UN staff have returned to Herat and international staff from NGOs are also returning.
Food tonnages entering Afghanistan have doubled in the past two weeks and there are food trucks in Quetta waiting to deliver food to 200,000 people in Kandahar. Thirty-three thousand tonnes of food have been dispatched to the central highlands for around 1 million people.
As your Lordships' have heard, our top priorities are to help immediate life saving needs in Afghanistan. The Government have allocated £40 million for humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan and a total of £26 million has been given to Pakistan.
In conclusion, I should like to draw your Lordships' attention to what has been called the "next chapter" to the Strategic Defence Review, which it seems is designed to rebalance our Armed Forces. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Guthrie, wisely warned us not to be so mesmerised by the Afghan operation that we change the structure of the Army. Any re-balancing must not be at the expense of doing away with our war fighting role. If we are able to train for war fighting efficiently, it is no great difficulty to adapt to counter terrorist tasks. To change from counter terrorism to war fighting, and become efficient at it, would take several years.
The four noble and gallant Lords, all who were Chiefs of the Defence Staff, and the noble Lord, Lord Chalfont, are steeped in military experience. I very much hope that the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Defence will reflect carefully and take note of what they have said. I agree with the many points that they have made. The Government would be failing in their duty if they do not give them due consideration.
On these Benches we support strongly the remarks made by my noble friend Lord King, especially in relation to intelligence and the enemy, Al'Qaeda; those of my noble friend Lord Marlesford in relation to the points that he made about air power, the capture of bin Laden and intelligence; and those of my noble friend Lord Astor in relation to the points that he made about humanitarian aid.
From these Benches I wish to pay tribute to our Armed Forces of the Crown. I am sure that the House will join me in this, especially as a great number of families will be separated this Christmas because of so many operations. Our Armed Forces are highly professional and exceptionally well trained. They are determined to achieve success and to protect our liberty and freedom. They are brave and courageous and they are always prepared to make the supreme sacrifice. We owe them a very great debt. It is our parliamentary duty to look after these men and women who are such an outstanding example of loyalty to their country and dedication to duty.
8.28 p.m.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach): My Lords, I apologise for my rather rough voice and the accompanying cough that goes with it.
I start by adding to the comments of other noble Lords—particularly those of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, and the noble Lord, Lord King
of Bridgwater—in marking the sad loss of Lord Carver, who died last week. As we have heard, he was a great soldier and a true free thinker. He was never afraid to challenge accepted thinking. He was always motivated by the highest principles and fortified by the keenest of intellects. He was a great asset to the House and his expertise and insight will be much missed.On a much happier note, I welcome the maiden speech of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Guthrie of Craigiebank. Everyone agrees that he gave an exciting speech, one which was full of wisdom and experience. I for one—and I know that the House is with me on this—look forward to hearing his future contributions. I dare say that defence Ministers generally will enjoy, and look forward to his saying on many occasions in the next year, what he said at the end of his speech about there being a need for more resources to be given to defence. That part of his speech went down very well indeed. Perhaps I may also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale. I believe that this is his first speech in his new position as defence spokesman for the Liberal Democrats in this House.
This is the sixth debate that we have had in this House on this subject, and much has changed. This is the first debate in which the massed battalions of military expertise have taken part. They are led by the four former Chiefs of the Defence Staff and there is also an ex-Secretary of State for Defence—a very distinguished Member of this House. There is the noble Lord, Lord Chalfont, who claimed to be slightly frightened by all these eminent people. In fact, he himself has a record as a former Minister and also as a distinguished defence journalist. I shall not leave out the noble Lord, Lord Vivian, who was a distinguished soldier and is held in high regard. There is also a huge amount of other defence expertise in this House. If others were put off or frightened by this battalion, imagine how I feel, having to answer some of the points they made. I am tempted, perhaps misquoting Wellington, whose name has already been raised today, to say, "I do not know what they do to the enemy, sir, but, by God, they frighten me!". I am very glad that they are on our side.
The situation has changed a great deal in the six weeks since our last debate, and very much for the better. At the beginning of November the Taliban regime and its terrorist allies, Osama bin Laden's Al'Qaeda network, still controlled the bulk of Afghanistan. Now the former has been shattered and the latter is being hunted down by the coalition. However, as my noble friend Lady Symons said, there is still a huge amount to do. We are in the forefront of that work and should be proud to be so. Your Lordships will know that part of that work will be of a military nature, and I shall return later to what that might involve. Before I do so, I briefly remind noble Lords of the reasons for our actions and for the strong contribution we have made to the coalition's achievements so far.
No one who saw on live television the attacks on 11th September—attacks that killed 4,000 people, 78 of them our countrymen—can doubt that we could do
anything but respond in the way we have. That is why, with the greatest respect, I disagree profoundly with the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, and agree with the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, as to the suggestion that we had some sort of choice here. We did not. This is what we had to do. Otherwise, we would have been letting down not just ourselves but future generations. It was right that we joined the United States in her effort to form a global coalition against terrorism, and it is entirely right that we give the United States all the assistance and support we can to bring the perpetrators to account.It cannot be stressed often enough that the United States has acted not in pursuit of revenge but, rather, justice. In another place the Prime Minister, on 4th October and again on 14th November, made the case against Osama bin Laden and the terrorists that he leads. But, as has been said in this debate, they stand condemned by their own words. A number of those words have been quoted from the video that was shown on our televisions last week. The particular phrase used that was as affecting as any other, in my view, was the frightful sentence from Osama bin Laden, "They were overjoyed when the first plane hit the building. So I said to them, 'Be patient'". Those are chilling words indeed. Any noble Lords who harboured any doubt about his guilt should harbour them no longer. He also added, having known five days before the attacks precisely when they would take place, that the hijackers themselves did not know what their crime was to be until shortly before they boarded the aircraft that they then seized. That betrays the callous cynicism of the terrorist. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Tanlaw, that Osama bin Laden himself hijacked Islam in a very profound way.
No one can doubt that we have achieved major objectives. When Kandahar fell, the last pretensions of the Taliban to govern Afghanistan fell with it. The training camps have been overrun. The Bonn agreement is the opportunity to restore peace in a country that has suffered from war for far too long. We believe that we have greatly damaged the ability of Al'Qaeda to threaten the peace and safety of civilised peoples throughout the world. However, bin Laden remains at large and many members of that organisation are still active and able to plan further barbarities such as 11th September. We are co-ordinating our researches into what the coalition found as Afghanistan was taken, in terms of future projects. I cannot say much about them, but noble Lords should not think that we are being careless about documents and exhibits that are found. The international community cannot afford to relax for a moment.
I am confident that we shall fulfil the tasks that we set ourselves. We have a broad strategy to rid the world of the threat posed by international terrorism. As the House has heard many times, it covers diplomatic, economic, trade, legal, humanitarian and military strands.
Senior Ministers have played an important role in building and sustaining the global coalition. We have frozen the assets of the supporters of terror. We have,
as no doubt noble Lords recall, taken steps to close loopholes in our legal system that might otherwise be exploited, and we have always been conscious of the plight of the Afghan people. They already laboured under a natural disaster in the shape of a four-year drought, whose effects were made far worse by the rule of the Taliban, with its brutality and savagery, causing so many to flee their homes.We were therefore forced, reluctantly, to take military action. Before I deal with that, I shall try to deal with a few questions that have been raised during the course of the debate. I do not for a moment promise to answer all of the questions. That would be impossible. It is more important that I should end my speech at the appropriate time. I will of course write to noble Lords if questions remain unanswered.
The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, asked about casualties. I replied to him in writing last week. I hope that he did not take the fact that I did not say in that reply that we regretted any casualties as somehow a sign that we do not. As the Secretary of State said in the other place last week, any civilian casualty is regretted by Her Majesty's Government and by all civilised people. I am afraid, however, that casualties are always the product of conflict and that is something which has not altered. I do not want the noble Earl to be under any illusions about how seriously we take the problem of civilian casualties.
As far as concerns land mines, military operations are still under way and the scope for de-mining operations is necessarily limited. We are very aware of the problem, however, and noble Lords know that one of our brave soldiers was seriously injured by a mine at Bagram only a week or so ago.
In taking this military action we had clear aims. They were as follows. First, to destroy the terrorist camps. Secondly, to pressurise the Taliban regime to end its support for Osama bin Laden. Thirdly, to create the right conditions for future operations in Afghanistan. As a coalition, we have effectively achieved them all. The Taliban broke under the coalition's pressure. The coalition and its Afghan supporters now control virtually the whole country. These are real achievements and ones in which we can be justifiably proud of our contribution.
That contribution has been significant, extensive and varied. It has embraced all three services in forming a valid, sustainable and often essential element of the wider coalition's military campaign. For example, the Royal Navy launched Tomahawk missile strikes at terrorist training camps. As we have heard, HMS "Illustrious" leads a large and versatile naval force in the Indian Ocean. Some of our ships are engaged in policing the waters of the Indian Ocean. Others form a base for operations for 40 Commando, Royal Marines and we still have a submarine presence in the area armed with missiles.
We have deployed our ground forces deep into Afghanistan. Noble Lords will understand that many of their operations are sensitive. However, I can say that our presence at Bagram, where we have helped
secure the airstrip for humanitarian and diplomatic flights, is well known. This helped to make the Bonn negotiations possible by allowing the Royal Air Force to fly the Northern Alliance's delegation to Bonn.That is not all. The RAF, together with helicopters aboard the fleet, have provided support to our forces in often dangerous circumstances. But that, too, is not the limit of the contribution made by the RAF. As was referred to in particular by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Inge, it extends to air-to-air refuelling, airborne warning and control, maritime patrols and photographic reconnaissance. All are essential to the operations that have taken place. Our assistance has been welcomed by the United States and acknowledged for the crucial role it has played.
Our Armed Forces have not achieved this without risk. The most obvious is from hostile forces. But it does not end there. I have mentioned that one of our soldiers was injured by a mine—laid by goodness knows who, and goodness knows when. There has also been the loss of one of the United States' aircraft through mechanical failure. Its crew are safe, but its loss brings home to us dramatically the risks that are always involved in such operations.
We continue our operation against international terrorism. But we need to secure what we have gained. That is why the Bonn agreement is the key. But it is still a fragile agreement. War has torn Afghanistan apart virtually ever since the former Soviet Union invaded on Christmas Eve in 1979—almost 22 years ago. If the physical impact has been dire—and it has—we can imagine the effect on the morale and psychology of the people.
If Bonn is to work, then the Afghan people, some of whom consider the interim authority it created to be unrepresentative, must all be convinced that it is a better alternative to civil war. We have heard about the loya jurga that will assemble in six months' time. But if Bonn is to work, the international community must give the process its support. The Afghans who negotiated the Bonn agreement know that too. For that reason, they explicitly consented to, and welcomed, proposals to deploy an international security force to Kabul.
As the Prime Minister made clear on 11th December, and again in his Statement to the other place which was repeated in this House, in principle we are ready and willing to lead in the deployment of an international security assistance mission (ISAF) to Kabul once the United Nations has given its authorisation. I am sure that a number of your Lordships will have read the comments of Monsieur Michel with some interest at the weekend. But notwithstanding his enthusiasm, perhaps I may quote our European Minister, my right honourable friend Peter Hain, who said:
- "The European Rapid Reaction Force . . . is not even walking yet let alone up and running".
All I can add is that we have not yet made a final decision. The Prime Minister made that clear. In principle, we are content to lead, but no final decision has been made, although it can be said clearly that the
ISAF will not be a European force. Our plans focused on creating a coalition of the willing—some European, some not. Crucially, too, we shall look to the United States to provide the support that only its unique capabilities can do.Many noble Lords will know about the successful co-ordination meeting that took place on 14th December of countries which in principle are interested in providing significant deployable and sustainable forces or support for an ISAF. I shall not name those countries. Their names have been in the newspaper. They include our partners in Europe and they also include countries that are not European, and some countries that have large Muslim populations.
These countries welcomed our offer to lead an ISAF, but also agreed with our own assessment that for such a demanding and challenging task we must make sure that we get things right. None of us can make final decisions until the preparatory work is complete. We need to work through exactly the kind of questions that have been asked during this debate. We need to work through the logistics of deploying and sustaining an international force like this. For deploying such a force to Kabul is, of course, as all noble Lords acknowledge, an immensely complicated task both politically and militarily. There are still many uncertainties which we, our international partners and the Afghans must clarify and resolve before any final decisions can be made.
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