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The Earl of Onslow: My Lords, I drew the issue to the attention of the House—and to the attention of the assistant chief of staff this morning—because I find it extraordinarily unattractive. I was laying the issue on the table in the hope that somebody would take it up. I do not take the issue in any way other than very seriously.
Lord Gilbert: My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Earl for making that clear. I am sure of the good faith of Ministers of this Government and previous Governments of either complexion in wanting this evil to be rooted out, just as Ministers have always been adamant and firm against cases of racial harassment. However, we have a lot to learn about what to do about it. It is clear that we shall not deal with these issues fundamentally unless we make it clear to the colonels and the sergeant-majors that their careers will be affected if there are incidents of that sort in units for which they are responsible. That is where the responsibility should lie. It should be made clear to those with such responsibilities that any incidents will go in their record and their career will be prejudiced. I draw your Lordships' attention to what happened in the United States at the time of the Tailhook scandal. Shortly after that, no less a personage than the chief of naval operations, the wholly admirable Admiral Kelso, resigned. It is worth considering whether we
should require the personnel of the various service boards to consider their position if matters of that sort are not attended to and brought to an end forthwith.I regret to have to say that I endorse every word that the noble Earl said about the Challenger tank. I am just grateful that it was not raining in Oman, or we might have had to complain about the windscreen wipers as well.
I take this opportunity to congratulate my noble friend the Minister on burying what I hope was my worst mistake in my last tenure at the Ministry of Defence—the Tracer programme. I thought that it was complete nonsense and I am ashamed that I allowed it to continue even to development stage. I confess that I should not have been as innocent as I was. The British Army told me that we had to have it because the Americans were insisting on it. I was mug enough not to ask any more questions until I got to Washington, when I found out that my opposite number, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, said that he had been told by his Army that they had to have it because the British were insisting on it. I hope that my noble friend can learn from my naivety.
I hope that my noble friend can also give me some assurances on a couple of bits of equipment that are not strictly Army equipment, but have a great effect on the Army. I am particularly concerned about the next generation fast jet trainer, the Hawk—or whatever the new Hawk is called; I can never remember the initials but I am sure that my noble friend has them at his fingertips. It would be unthinkable if the order for the new fast jet trainer was not to be placed with BAe Systems for the Hawk. It is getting pretty close to scandalous how long it is taking for the decision to be made. That is having a serious effect on defence sales. Quite apart from the capabilities of the Royal Air Force, it is also having industrial implications, of which I am sure my noble friend is aware.
My noble friend will not be so happy with my next comment. I am afraid that I do not share the enthusiasm of my noble friend Lord Hardy or the noble Lord, Lord Burnham, for the A400M. I shall not detain your Lordships with all the reasons why I think that it is a complete waste of money. The noble Lord, Lord Burnham, said that we ought to have the A400M as soon as possible as a replacement for the C130K. The C130J should be with us by now, although we have had a lot of birthing pains with it. In any case, the A400M is intended not as a tactical lift aircraft, but as a strategic aircraft. As such, it is in competition with the wholly admirable C17 aircraft, which is now in place. The decision should be taken on objective grounds. Rather than just trying to ensure jobs in Europe for a plane that does not exist and has specifications that are hugely inferior to those of the C17, which is already successfully in service in two air forces, we should be trying through OCCAR—I ask your Lordships to forgive me for all these initials—to secure European agreement with Boeing to build the C17 in Europe. That would be a major contribution to Europe obtaining the strategic airlift capability that it requires.
My final point reverts to questions of the Armed Forces. I very much hope that my noble friend can give us assurances that the welfare arrangements for the troops in Afghanistan have been properly considered. I am sure that my noble friend will say yes. But the Ministry of Defence is very bad at looking into such matters.
I hope that my noble friend will forgive me for saying this, but I can recall a private conversation with the current Permanent Secretary not so long ago—or perhaps it was his predecessor, I cannot remember—who commented what a poor show we made of this. I can remember going back to Kuwait where the troops did not receive their chip frying machines, or their telephone-to-home call arrangements. Moreover, the mail arrangements were inadequate. Time after time we say that it will not happen again; but it does. These are not frivolous matters. They are extremely important welfare matters, as I am sure my noble friend accepts. I hope that he can confirm that such matters are being monitored closely, and will give us an assurance that he will look into them as soon as possible.
4.41 p.m.
Lord Lyell: My Lords, what a privilege it is to follow the opening remarks of my noble friend Lord Onslow. He referred to one or two interesting incidents during his career; and, indeed, some that happened recently in the desert. It was 44 years ago when I, too, was a young national serviceman. On 14th July 1958, your Lordships might remember there was a Nasserite putsch in Iraq. My battalion, the First Battalion Scots Guards, which was then serving at Windsor, was warned for duty. The commanding officer, who many noble Lords may remember, my late noble friend Lord Cathcart, needed a training area. "Very good", he was told, "you may have a training area, but you can't have Oman". So, as there was nothing in Scotland, the battalion was then sent to Dartmoor, where we had not one, or two, but three times the normal rainfall. Having trained one platoon, I arrived back at Windsor to be told by the company sergeant-major, "You're very lucky, you're to train Mr Keswick's platoon". So I went back and there was even more rain.
Things have not necessarily changed over the past 44 years. But, through the visits that I have made on several occasions with the House of Lords defence group in the company of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, I have been delighted to see that, very simply, there is nothing that the British Army cannot do; and that there is nothing that the defence forces of the United Kingdom are unable to do. Last night I heard a very interesting address from a senior source in the Ministry of Defence, who referred to certain terms. As far as he was concerned, "stretch" was fine, but what he called "overuse" seemed to him to present a problem. I thought that that was a clever way of putting it.
This morning, I was also interested to hear political representatives in another place—namely, the shadow Minister and the Minister—referring to various
percentages. I should be glad to receive some clarification in this respect. Last night, the same senior source to whom I referred said that the percentage of personnel on operations was 26 per cent or 27 per cent. However, he also referred to the percentage of 6 per cent, which I believe relates to further personnel who are committed to operations. As I understand it, that means that such personnel would be placed on short notice in readiness to move on operations, or would be used in other ways as a back-up for those already on operations. Can the Minister say whether this is a rising or a falling trend?The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, referred to a visit that both he and I made to the Defence Medical Services in Birmingham. I confirm every word that he said this afternoon. I have some personal knowledge of the Territorial Army and of the medical operatives who serve with the TA. Indeed, I reiterate everything that my noble friend Lord Freeman said in that respect. I was interested to note that 10 per cent of the Armed Forces in the Balkans are from the TA. I am sure that the Minister will accept that we are grateful for that help, especially in the technical and medical areas to which reference has been made. The effect of our forces in the Balkans, and elsewhere, would be seriously diluted without that assistance.
In the case of the medical services, can the Minister give both the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall, and myself encouragement as regards what are called "parenting and messing" arrangements? As I understand it, "parenting" is the ability of personnel in such places as Northallerton, which I have visited on a previous occasion, and Birmingham, to carry out their necessary training as soldiers; in other words, the opportunity to use their weapons and undertake the necessary physical training. I believe that that can be achieved without disrupting the other duties and training commitments that they have at the hospital.
I should like to emphasise a point that the noble and gallant Lord did not have time to mention. I have in mind the extraordinarily forthright commitment of all the young men and women at what I believe is called the University of Central England, which is attached to the Defence Medical Services. It provides a marvellous three-year course for medical operatives of the future.
There have been one or two major successes. I was lucky to be in Docklands at the defence exhibition on 11th September. Indeed, my noble friend Lord Freeman was one of the first people I encountered, though I was not aware that he operated in that particular area. I found enormous enthusiasm there among the British Army team, but I also had the good fortune to visit HMS "Lancaster". I hope that the Minister, as well as noble Lords, will note the following. First, what a first-class ship it is; secondly, how very pleased the operatives and the people working with the new Merlin helicopter were with it; and, thirdly, the unbelievable enthusiasm of the sonar man on that helicopter. He suggested to me that one thing that your Lordships should do was to make a visit to see it. We shall try to do so. That seemed to me to be one shining success in a world event at the
Docklands: it shows that there are at least some successes coming forward. Will the Minister please keep that rolling, as well as the other initiatives that no doubt he will be mentioning in his response?In conclusion, I was delighted to hear the noble Lord, Lord Gilbert, refer to something called Tailhook in Las Vegas. The noble Lord may be surprised to learn that I, too, have been to Las Vegas for just one night. I went with a group called the North Atlantic Assembly—NATO parliamentarians. I can assure him that what I read of what took place at Tailhook seems to me to be quite modest compared to what I saw. I do not mean to refer to the activities of members of the North Atlantic Assembly; indeed, I was certainly astonished at much of the moderation. But, possibly, such behaviour was not fitting and worthy for the United States Navy.
I hope that the Minister and his colleagues will bear in mind that decisions taken now as regards recruitment and retention will be what count in three, four or five years' time. It is excellent to say, "Oh, yes; what happened in Afghanistan was unexpected". I admit that operations in Macedonia turned out to be a marvellous success; namely, to achieve something and pull out within the time schedule. The whole history of the British Armed Forces is one of waiting for the unexpected. I repeat: such decisions must be taken slowly with the help of the defence logistics organisation, and of the Treasury. Then in three or five years' time, if noble Lords and the Minister are still here, we can expect success in future operations.
4.49 p.m.
Earl Attlee: My Lords, I remind the House that I have an interest as a serving officer in the Territorial Army. I am grateful for the comments made by my noble friend Lord Freeeman about the TA. I wish I had time to follow up on the remarks made by my noble friend Lord Onslow regarding the issue of sexual harassment. I can only say that I do not recognise it as a problem of the present, although it was clearly a problem of the past. I should admit that it was a very difficult problem for me to deal with when I was in command of a TA unit, simply as regards determining the rights and wrongs of even a minor complaint.
I took part in Exercise Saif Sareea for about one month in a very humble capacity. Morale among the troops was very good. They enjoyed the exercise: they enjoyed working in a new, different and challenging environment. My noble friend Lord Onslow raised the issue of the SA80 rifle. The design is old. It was the first design of bull-pup rifle to enter service in an army. The Government have a refurbishment programme for it, but the cost is comparable to that of the new weapon. Moreover, about 10 per cent of the Army will be left-handed. Can the Minister confirm that the SA80 rifle can now be fired left-handed?
We undertook Exercise Saif Sareea for good political reasons, but did so within current MoD funding. Omanis at all levels were very pleased to see us, but that is particularly true of the Royal Army of Oman.
There were, nevertheless, some problems. Because there was no extra money for flying hours, air transport was restricted throughout the year and there were fewer opportunities to use even individual members of the TA, let alone whole formed units on their annual camp. It is a sorely missed opportunity. I recall that, in the 1980s, my interest in the TA was maintained by the very large FTXs we engaged in in BAOR. If we had been able to deploy parts of the TA to Saif Sareea, it would have been a brilliant boost to retention. It would also have relieved pressure on some Regular Army units.
Several noble Lords have raised the issue of the Challenger 2 tank, and my noble friend Lord Onslow specifically addressed the track-pad issue, which was a problem in Saif Sareea. However, noble Lords have to understand that the rock over which the Challenger moved in the southern training area was unusually hard and sharp. Similar problems were not encountered in the Gulf War because those tanks were operating on a different type of ground. Nevertheless, perhaps the Government should consider developing desert track for Challenger so that we shall not experience the same problem if we want to deploy it in desert conditions.
Challenger 2 is optimised for operations in a temperate climate, and there was no funding to "desertise" it for Exercise Saif Sareea. However, it is important to understand that a desertised Challenger 2 would have a significantly larger heat signature, thereby making it easier for the enemy to detect and engage it. Additionally, there would be a large increase in parasitic losses from the cooling system.
The good news is that the Challenger 2 turret systems, which caused so many problems when Challenger was introduced, worked well in Exercise Saif Sareea although the ambient temperature was well outside the design envelope.
Lessons were learned in Exercise Saif Sareea, but that is the point of having a field exercise rather than a computer simulation.
My noble friend Lord Onslow raised the issue of the Bowman radio system. We should thank God that the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, has dispensed with the services of Archer Communications. I hope that the project is now under control.
I have a couple of questions for the Minister on Bowman. First, what is the planned in-service date for the first brigade to receive it? Secondly, when will the whole Army—the Regular and the TA—be equipped with Bowman? It is no use equipping only one brigade with the system as it will have to be used right across the Army.
Casualty evacuation is a vital part of all exercises and operations. The Staff place great emphasis on speedy evacuation within agreed timescales. Helicopters are frequently used in evacuations, but they are not always available, particularly in adverse weather and when dealing with a second, nearby casualty. In such circumstances, Landrover battlefield
ambulances have to be used. The ambulances, however, are not fitted with radios. Moreover, their crews are usually too busy to play around with a radio.What happens, however, if a battlefield ambulance is lost, crashes, is stopped by locals or attacked by the enemy? The headquarters simply does not know the situation, and the lines of communication can be very long. In Exercise Saif Sareea, for example, the distance between the traffic posts on the main supply route were about the maximum allowable. It is a pity that the TA was not available to reduce that distance.
Supermarkets—at least Safeway—do not have a similar problem because all their vehicles are fitted with a satellite-tracking system, enabling them not only to know the precise location of all their assets, but to send text messages. If we fitted such a system to battlefield ambulances, the headquarters would know the precise location of all ambulances in the area of operations and could communicate with them. The system would also automatically tell the headquarters whether an ambulance had stopped moving.
Not every battlefield ambulance in the fleet needs to be so fitted. However, I think that the system should be included in ambulances involved in exercises or operations overseas. I have not raised the issue before, but I hope that the Minister will consider it. I believe that service personnel deserve the best chance of surviving an accident whether it occurs on an exercise or an operation.
4.55 p.m.
Lord Redesdale: My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, for initiating this wide-ranging debate which encompasses two issues rather than one, allowing the maximum number of your Lordships to address these important issues.
All noble Lords have expressed the high regard in which they hold our armed services, and I echo those sentiments. Our armed services are small but extremely professional. It is a source of pride that they are called upon to lead in many operations. Overstretch, however, is one of the main threats to the capabilities of our armed services. It is a perennial problem that will not be solved overnight. Nevertheless, recruitment and retention are the two main issues that will have to be addressed.
We on these Benches support the personnel levels set out in the SDR. However, undermanning is a serious problem. Many noble Lords have cited statistics; the ones I shall quote are dated September 2001. They show that the Army was short of 6,669 personnel; the Royal Navy of 1,358; and the RAF of 1,029, with a particular shortage of jet pilots, as the noble Lord, Lord Burnham said. Moreover, as the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Bramall said, the shortages are not spread equally. There is a particular problem with the number of doctors and nurses. That undermanning will lead to operational overstretch.
Our commitments are not outside the parameters set by the SDR. Furthermore, as has been mentioned, fewer Armed Forces members were involved in
operations during Christmas because the situation in Kosovo, in Macedonia and in Sierra Leone had improved. Nevertheless, some sections continue to experience problems caused by undermanning.I believe that the Government are considering retaining the services of professional recruitment firms to help solve the problem. We support such moves. The firms will, however, have to present a positive view of the services. At a time of low unemployment, with pay levels high outside the armed services and no attendant risk or prospect of being sent overseas, the Army will face recruitment problems.
Retention is the other half of the problem. I am particularly concerned about the new proposals on service pensions. When there are difficulties with morale and retention, changes to current arrangements have to be handled with great care. I am sure that no noble Lord would support any measure that worsened the pension arrangements for service personnel.
The retention issue can be addressed by reviewing the formula used by the Armed Forces pay review body. Pay should recognise that service life is more dangerous and less stable and that it can restrict opportunities for partners to work. The use of a bonus system should be investigated.
The provision of high quality unaccompanied personnel and family quarters would be helpful. Change is needed to the "march in, march out" arrangements for the handover of married quarters. It should be replaced with a contracted out arrangement to prepare housing for new occupants. A review of moving and relocation allowances to ensure that total costs to service personnel are covered should be considered.
The noble Baroness, Lady Park, referred to a matter of major concern; namely, family issues. Ensuring high standards of welfare for the families of service personnel is central to securing high levels of retention. The reason for departure most cited in the continuous attitude survey of service leavers is the effect of service on family life. It is imperative to the efficient running of our Armed Forces that social, educational and recreational facilities for service families are actively supported.
The Service Families' Task Force has done some good work in addressing issues outside direct MoD control such as schools' admission policy, access to the NHS and eligibility for benefits. There is no reason why the Service Families' Task Force should not also investigate and report on issues within direct MoD control such as the provision of on-base welfare services and service accommodation. A revamped Service Families' Task Force would need to meet more regularly, possibly on a monthly basis. The SFTF also needs to be open and accessible to service families with reports and conclusions of meetings made available at forces' bases and on the Internet.
We on these Benches would like to see a service families' charter applied at all bases requiring the delivery of consistent, standardised welfare services to a minimum specification. There would be annual
reporting mechanisms and a families' officer on every base responsible for overseeing community development. A dedicated budget would be provided aimed at giving practical and systematic help to spouses, improving facilities for families and co-ordinating information supply on local job opportunities, housing choice, local amenities and local schooling. Families' officers need a standard job description so that they can rightfully demand resources and requisition facilities to fulfil the tasks set out for them. A review is needed of the support offered to forces' families welfare organisations by the MoD, including funding, to encourage best practice and avoid duplication.I turn to equipment failure. Although I shall probably overshoot the time allocated to me, I wish to comment on a couple of issues. Like the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, I ask whether the modified SA80 can be used by left-handed people. I am not left-handed but I have a particular loathing of the SA80. However, it is an excellent rifle as regards its sighting mechanism and it is accurate. The sling is an extremely useful piece of kit. However, the first time I fired the rifle I discovered that a large section of my thumb was missing. The dust cover of the modified version—I believe that it had been modified 125 times at that point—had the tendency to flip open and cut into the hand of the person firing the weapon. I very much hope that the modified SA80 has far fewer defects.
I am particularly concerned about boots. The standard issue combat "highs" occupy a particular place in the hearts of those who have worn them in that they can inflict incredible damage to the knees of serving personnel. Has any research been carried out on how many servicemen have been invalided out of the Army due to the effect of their boots? From an economic point of view it would be worth redesigning those boots and introducing a far more comfortable model which causes less friction on one's knees.
Finally, I wish to comment on the Bowman radio system. When I was an officer in the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers I was told, "Don't worry about the Clansman, it is a useless piece of kit, but we shall have the Bowman very soon". That occurred a good 10 years ago. The target date for the Bowman's initial operating capability is March 2004. Is that date still on target? The procurement cost of supply and support of Bowman, including VAT, is £1.8 billion. Are we still on target not to overspend that sum, or is there a new estimate? The whole life programme cost is some £2.5 billion.
The noble Lord, Lord Freeman, said that the first compulsory call-up of Territorial Army personnel has just taken place for intelligence personnel. Having served in the Territorial Army, I know that its members are prepared to be called up. Many have served in Kosovo and the Falklands. However, I refer to the new provision of compulsory call-up which has not been used before. Will there be an ongoing assessment of that call-up in the short term as regards retention of TA personnel?
5.7 p.m.
Lord Vivian: My Lords, we are all grateful to my noble friend for bringing this debate to our attention today. In the defence White Paper of 1999 it was recognised that people give us the critical edge that leads to success, whether in high intensity conflict, peace support operations or defence diplomacy. To retain that edge and to resolve the deep-seated problem of overstretch, we need the right number of good quality, well trained and highly motivated people.
The MoD is to be congratulated on the recent initiatives it has taken to improve some of the personnel matters that have a direct bearing on retention and attract people to a service life. The noble Lord, Lord Bach, has been exceptionally helpful on many occasions and I am most grateful to him for that. The criticisms and points at issue that I shall raise are designed to be constructive and lead to further improvements for our men and women. However, both overstretch and equipment failure cause low morale in the Armed Forces of the Crown.
The main reason for overstretch and equipment failures is a continuous lack of resources in that insufficient funds are provided for the MoD budget, a theme which has been represented throughout this debate by your Lordships. Until more funds are made available by the Treasury, I can see little hope of rectifying this serious situation. In some cases overstretch occurs as a result of having too few units to meet certain commitments. In others it is a product of having too few individuals which arises from undermanning, which in turn fuels further overstretch, causes dissatisfaction and low morale, leads to retention problems and hence more undermanning in a vicious circle. The recent announcement of the compulsory call out—the first since Suez some 45 years ago—of 140 TA intelligence specialists confirms the alarming overstretch and illustrates the point well. There are two main ways of dealing with overstretch and undermanning: to reduce overseas commitments to a number that we can deal with or to increase recruitment and retention levels.
I should now like to draw your Lordships' attention to some aspects of overcommitment. Currently the United Kingdom has the Armed Services deployed in 28 different areas around the world and within those areas the Army has just under 31,000 deployed. It is undertaking operational deployments— in addition to Northern Ireland with just under 14,000 troops, which may well need reinforcement in the future—in Sierra Leone; Bosnia; Kosovo; and in the Falkland Islands.
The dangers of peace-keeping operations are that in many cases they result in open-ended commitments. There are already signs that that may be the case in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, there will probably be ground forces of some 1,800 and a Royal Navy task force of around 4,500, including Royal Marines. In March last year, prior to deployments to Afghanistan, the Army was 24.4 per cent—the figure is now some 26 per cent to 27 per cent—committed to operations. However, few people realise that that means an overall
commitment of some 73 per cent to 81 per cent, allowing for those who are "preparing for" and "recovering from" those operations. The figure is too high to sustain.In the past, when serving in the Armed Forces, I have welcomed operational deployments. Operations are an essential part of the ethos and morale of the services. They are what we train for and confirm whether the training for war has been correct. They must be sustainable without bringing dissatisfaction to those who are serving by the imposition of excessive separation, by restricting training and the quality of our military skills and by making retention more difficult. After all, men and women join up to serve their country and look forward to operations provided that they are not continuously over-committed.
I turn to undermanning, which results from taking in insufficient numbers of recruits and not being able to retain them once they are in the services. The Army has a trained requirement of some 108,000 but a trained strength of around only 96,000, according to UK Defence Statistics 2001, which shows a shortfall of just under 12,000. However, the MoD performance report for 2000-01 quoted a figure of 8,000. To those figures can be added some 9,000 medically downgraded personnel, which means that between 17,000 and 21,000 personnel are not available for operational deployment. It would be helpful if the Minister could clarify the situation.
The estimated trained strength for 2004 is around 98,000, which is a marginal increase of only some 2,000 personnel. There is little hope of the Army approaching its trained-strength target by 2008. The total outflow exceeded inflow by 528 people, although that retention has improved by some 2,000 during the year l999-2000. The Army needs an intake of some 15,000 new recruits each year just to stand still in terms of manning and an annual figure of some 25,000 if it is to meet its trained strength by 2008.
Despite all the determined efforts that are put into recruiting, the situation is deteriorating and a really radical approach must be adopted to improve recruiting figures as soon as possible. Many years ago, regiments relied on their own regimental recruiting teams; perhaps we should return to that system. An improvement to the system would be for experienced senior NCOs to be placed on a special list at the age of 45 and to continue their service, but not to count against the existing rank structure, which would ensure that that would not upset the promotion structure. They would be an invaluable force, particularly in the training of others.
I turn to retention. As I have already illustrated, that has improved over the past two years. However, there is more that can be done in that area if retention is to improve further and morale is to be kept high. There is no time to cover all those issues in any detail, but they are: lack of individuals creating double work loads, aggravating the poor manning situation; excessive separation, leading to many family break-ups; the still poor state of single and married accommodation, although some improvements have
been made; the critical state of first and second line medical services, although some improvements have been made to fast-tracking procedures with the National Health Service; and the cancellation of training exercises, which has a large impact on the standard of our military skills. The Armed Forces rightly hold a special place in our society and political correctness must not impede in any way our fighting efficiency.I turn to Army equipment, which I shall not cover in great depth because so many noble Lords have already identified equipment problems. I agree in the main with what has already been said. However, I will reinforce briefly some of the points that have been made. The Challenger 2 tank is a world-beating tank and the Royal Armoured Corps has great faith in it. However, its performance in Oman was abysmal. That was in no way due to the design of the tank. Had it been desertised with the appropriate air filters and track, as Vickers had recommended, it would have functioned just as well as the Omani Challenger 2 tanks.
It is unacceptable that additional funds for the desertisation of those tanks was not forthcoming. Would the Minister explain how that occurred? Could he explain why the new SA80 was not issued to the Royal Marines prior to their recent operational deployment, confirm that Bowman is on course and inform us of any other major equipment slippage dates? In addition, what was the reason for the cancellation of the anti-tank missile system Trigat, in relation to which £115 million had already been spent? Finally, are there any plans to reduce the equipment programme over the next four years by £1.2 billion?
This has been a very worthwhile debate. I agree with many of the points that noble Lords have raised. Regrettably, there is no time to comment on them. I hope that the Minister will record our concerns on the matters that we have raised.
In conclusion, I do not believe that there can be any solution to overstretch and over-commitment without either tailoring our Armed Forces to their capabilities or making a real and significant increase to the defence budget. As a start, what is known as the £500 million efficiency savings measures—in my opinion they are now defence cuts—should cease forthwith. A year-on-year programme of efficiency savings can only have a debilitating effect on all levels of command and can be destructive to the quality of life that will sustain retention in the Armed Forces.
Finally, as is customary in your Lordships' House, I pay great tribute to the brave and courageous men and women who serve their country loyally and with the utmost dedication to duty. This debate has drawn out matters that show that the Army is not as well equipped as it should be and that it is over-committed and undermanned. It is our duty to rectify those serious shortcomings as soon as possible. I repeat that the only solution to those problems is either to increase the defence budget significantly and to cease the annual requirement for the £500 million efficiency savings or to restrict our commitments to within our operational capabilities.
5.18 p.m.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach): My Lords, I, too, am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Onslow, for securing this debate. Whether he is someone with whom I should choose to go to the jungle—or maybe even the desert—I am not absolutely certain, but he would be a very enjoyable companion anyway.
Noble Lords will recall that, during our debates last year on international terrorism, the noble Earl raised concerns about some of the equipment that was issued to the Army. It is of course right that we should address the issue in more depth, as we have done today. I regret that we have not had a bit more time in which to do that.
I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken this afternoon—they did so with great expertise and experience—and welcome the tributes that have been paid to our servicemen and women. I must point out that this debate relates in particular to the Army. Although I shall do my best in the very limited time that remains to discuss the other services—particularly in terms of equipment—I am afraid that I cannot do justice to that subject today.
There will be complete agreement in the House when I say that we have the finest Armed Forces in the world. Their professionalism, self-sacrifice and determination has been shown time and again in such places as the Balkans, Sierra Leone and now in Afghanistan. Their actions and achievements continue to demonstrate their world-class quality. I believe that it is highly appropriate, therefore, that any misgivings about the equipment with which they are provided or the conditions under which they operate should be discussed and considered in this House.
Let us, first, consider the term "overstretch". It is one which I happen to believe should be resisted. Overstretch is, by definition, that stretch to the system which is excessive. In this instance, it can be assumed that we would not engage in military activities beyond the limits that we are prepared to endure. Of course, pressure points exist in certain specialist areas, but one must consider those within the complexity of defence business. While the overall pace and number of commitments may be entirely manageable, some shortage categories may feel pressure.
I shall set out some of the measures that we have in place to address those issues. But let us be clear: the Armed Forces have not declined any operational commitments because of excessive stretch. And that is not because of political directives. As the House knows, whenever we deploy our forces, we do so with the full support of our senior military advisers; namely, the Chiefs of Staff and, above all, the Chief of the Defence Staff. Their important advice is based on their collective expertise and the best information on the availability and readiness of our forces. There is inevitably some risk in any deployment but we manage and minimise that risk.
It has been suggested that in order to reduce overstretch we should either reduce our commitments overseas or seek additional funding for the Ministry of
Defence. The noble Lord, Lord Vivian, has, as always, been absolutely up-front and straightforward about which he prefers. I regret that the shadow spokesman on defence in the House of Commons was not so up-front this morning on the "Today" programme when he refused to answer a question about seeking additional funding for the Ministry of Defence. The noble Lord, Lord Vivian, is right. In this sense, we must either reduce our commitments overseas or seek additional funding for the Ministry of Defence. The Official Opposition must say where they stand because, having listened carefully to what they say, it is clear that they do not believe that we should reduce our commitments overseas. They supported the Government, for example, in the setting up of ISAF in Afghanistan. They also supported us in Kosovo. Are there any overseas commitments which the Opposition do not accept or believe that we should not be involved in? If there are, it is essential that they say so—I do not mean in the Chamber today, but at some stage in the near future.I would argue that to do less in relation to operations overseas might mean that we do not complete the tasks that we set ourselves. That might result in additional commitments and additional stretch at a later stage. That is a matter that we must bear very much in mind in relation to Afghanistan. If we do not have a presence there now, shall we be faced with this problem in a much greater way in three to five years' time?
I must remind the House that the Government have increased the defence budget—certainly not sufficiently for some noble Lords' purposes. But, overall, the defence budget will have received about £1,250 million of new money between 2000-01 and 2003-04, even after inflation is taken into account. It is the first time that defence expenditure plans have increased in real terms each year for more than a decade.
Our underlying policy for our Armed Forces is to be found in the Strategic Defence Review. We remain committed to achieving a balance of commitments consistent with that document's assumptions. Decisions were taken in the SDR about the size and structure of the Army. Manning the Army to those levels will require an increase in its strength from current levels. The extent of the increase will depend in part on the outcome of ongoing studies into the best ways of delivering the military capability required of the Army.
The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, asked about Northern Ireland. I can assure the noble Lord that, as part of the Army's formation and readiness cycle, we have the necessary forces available to meet the requirements of military assistance to the civilian police—one of many roles that our Armed Forces undertake. We are addressing this problem in several different areas. In particular, we are focusing on trying to attract more high-quality potential recruits into the training organisation, reducing wastage during training and keeping retention levels steady. I am pleased to tell your Lordships that recruitment into training organisations has been good. Wastage rates
during training have improved significantly during the past three years. But I add quickly that the Government are not complacent; there is a very long way to go.We work on the principle that, on completion of their training, we aim to commit personnel to operations for no longer than is absolutely necessary to achieve the military aim. Personnel are withdrawn from operations at the very earliest opportunity, as was the case in Macedonia last year. We said that our forces would be there for 30 days, and 30 days it was. Similarly, we have set limits on our commitment to act as lead nation of the ISAF in Afghanistan.
Army tour intervals are currently assessed at an average of 28 months and are the best they have been for five years. We are above the SDR target that we set ourselves of 24 months. However—this must be said—there are differences between units within the Army, notably within the infantry and light role battalion. Not all make the 24 months figure; nor, possibly more importantly, do individuals. It is perfectly possible, for example, to conceive of a unit whose tour intervals are 24 months or more but within which certain individuals may well have tours inside that limit. We remain committed to tackling that issue, particularly in relation to specialisations where problems are most acute.
So far as concerns the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, I say briefly that recording separated service for all service personnel is now a key objective of the Armed Forces' personnel strategy. Its importance is reflected in our efforts to manage the operational tempo on the family lives of Armed Forces members. I hope that that goes some way towards dealing with the noble Lord's point. The illustration that I give to the House is that in comparison with the Kosovo operations in 1999, when 44 per cent of the Army's personnel were committed to operations, at present, the world-wide commitment is approximately 27 per cent. The noble Lord, Lord King, argued in a powerful speech that it is possible that the way in which the figures are calculated has changed. My best understanding—I asked about this point in particular—is that there is no difference in the way that the figures are calculated to give 26 per cent in 1997 and approximately 27 per cent now.
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