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Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, is the Minister aware that it is right that, in the first instance, the
Commonwealth War Graves Commission should make such representations as it feels necessary? So far as concerns the designation of the UNESCO world heritage site, is the Minister further aware that it would be absolutely right for Ministers in his Government to give support to that?
Lord Bach: My Lords, I am aware of that. But first things first. As I told the House a moment ago, the Belgian Minister of the Interior has been told by the Flemish Minister, the regional Minister, that he is to start procedures for the recognition of war relics as world heritage matters. I do not think that that is a bad beginning.
Lord Burnham: My Lords, what representations are Her Majesty's Government making with regard to the British cemetery at Rosieres and two other smaller cemeteries which are on the site of the proposed third Paris airport? This also is the site of a much larger French cemetery.
Lord Bach: My Lords, it is too early for us to make representations. The French Government have not released any approved plans for a new international airport which might affect historic battlefields to the north of Paris. But, as my honourable friend Dr Lewis Moonie said in another place last week, if these matters went ahead we would certainly have strong representations to make.
Baroness Strange: My Lords, is the Minister aware that many people in Belgium have written to me saying that they also are very concerned about the scale of the roadworks envisaged and, further, that they might turn up all kinds of graves of people who are lying along the ridge in the battlefield where they fell in 1917?
Lord Bach: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness. Yes, Her Majesty's Government are very aware of the strong feelings about this matter, not just in Belgium but also in this country and in this House.
Lord Morris of Manchester: My Lords, perhaps I may return briefly to the related and deeply sensitive issue of the French Government's widely reported decision to build a third Paris airport on a Somme battlefield where British war graves are sited, which I raised in a recent Parliamentary Question helpfully answered by my noble friend. Can he now say what response there has been to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's representations to the French Ministry of the Interior about the strong feeling in this country, not least in the ex-service community, on this issue?
Lord Bach: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. He gave me advance notice of his question. Therefore, I was able to check this morning through my department with the Commonwealth War Graves
Commission whether it had had any response. It has not yet had any response. When it has, my noble friend will be the first to know.
Lord Eden of Winton: My Lords, I strongly support the original Question put by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester. While taking considerable comfort from the answers given by the Minister, will he take the opportunity of drawing the British Ambassador's attention to these exchanges in this place this afternoon so that he in turn can make the due approaches to the relevant Minister in order to emphasise the very strong feelings held in all parts of this House and in this country, that this vitally important and significant memorial to the dead—to those who sacrificed their lives for the preservation of freedom—should be preserved?
Lord Bach: My Lords, I very much take on board what the noble Lord has said. I shall personally make sure that Her Majesty's Ambassador hears about these exchanges.
Arts Council
3 p.m.
Viscount Falkland asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether they will continue to support the Arts Council's proposals for a single organisation for arts funding if the proposals do not meet the criteria for a new organisation articulated by the Minister for the Arts in the House of Lords on 2nd July 2001.
The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Blackstone): My Lords, the Government are closely monitoring the progress of the Arts Council as it implements its plans for a single organisation for arts funding. We remain confident that that will deliver, first, administrative savings throughout the system, allowing increased funding for arts organisations, and, secondly, greater scope in the regions to award that funding in the light of regional priorities. We will continue to monitor progress to make sure that those goals are achieved.
Viscount Falkland: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. It seems to me, however, that the changes are a fait accompli. It is not just restructuring; it is substantial reorganisation. Is the Minister aware that the Arts Council kindly sent me a copy of the written evidence that it submitted to the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport on these matters? The council listed 14 areas of improvement that would result from the transfer of regional responsibility to a single, national body with responsibility for arts funding.
Does the Minister agree that the conclusions are interesting? In its conclusions, the council says that it accepts that the current regional structure already delivers some of those benefits but that it is necessary,
in order to make the benefits more complete, to have a single organisation to deliver them. Without exception, all the benefits could be delivered more fully and more quickly within a single organisation than through the current 11 organisations in the regional structure. Where has the Government's commitment to regionalism gone?
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, I should explain that the Arts Council is trying to reduce the level of bureaucracy that has been involved in the funding of the arts for some time. There are 11 organisations and there is quite a lot of second-guessing between the centre and the regional arts boards. We want a more streamlined and less bureaucratic system, but one that is decentralised. It is important to get that point across. What lies behind the proposals is not greater centralisation, but the reverse. We support the Arts Council in bringing its proposals into line with regional government and the Government's commitment to regionalisation by moving from 10 to nine regions. Within those regions it will be possible for decisions to be made that are relevant to a particular region's needs as far as concerns the arts.
Lord Moser: My Lords, I declare an interest. I have had a long involvement with the Southern Arts Board, and, at present, I am chairman of the Playhouse in Oxford and of Music at Oxford.
In my years as president of Southern Arts, I learnt that the arts depend ultimately on local involvement. May I ask the Minister three questions?
Lord Moser: My Lords, perhaps I may ask two questions. I shall make the three into two. Long statistical experience enables me to do that.
The Arts Council today announced that the regions would become ever more important. How does that square with devolution, which is the present situation? It is being replaced with minor delegation.
My second question is about the proposed staff cuts. How many of those cuts will fall on the central—now monolithic—organisation, as opposed to the regions?
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, I am happy for the noble Lord, Lord Moser, to ask three questions, but I shall answer only two.
Improving regional representation and making sure that the regions have a voice will happen through a completely restructured Arts Council. What is proposed is a new system under which all the chairmen of the regional advisory councils that are being set up under the reorganisation will be members of the Arts Council and will be able to reflect regional interests, needs and arguments at the centre. That is a substantial step forward.
The Government have asked the Arts Council to make sure that its commitment to making savings is fulfilled. The council is expected to save between £8 million and £10 million. The great majority of those savings will fall on the centre.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall: My Lords, I shall declare an interest as executive director of the National Theatre, which is in receipt of funds from the Arts Council of England. Is the Minister aware that the current funding system in this country does not serve the arts well? There is widespread support among arts organisations for this much needed reinvention of the funding system. The current system is extremely bureaucratic and diffuse.
Does the Minister agree that proper accountability to Parliament for the dispensation of public funds to the arts is likely to be better achieved through one organisation than through 11?
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Hudnall that too much money is spent on bureaucracy and not enough goes directly to the arts organisations that we want to see benefiting, and that is the purpose behind the change, as I said. There are too many separate funding schemes—currently over 100. That is what I meant when I said that there was a need for greater streamlining.
I am also very aware of the fact that many arts organisations themselves favour the change. An independent survey was undertaken as part of the consultation exercise, and it showed that, of the 74 arts organisations that responded, around two thirds were either positive or neutral about the change and only about a third were negative. That is a reflection of what my noble friend has just said.
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