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Business
3.6 p.m.
Lord Carter: My Lords, at a convenient moment after 3.30 p.m., my noble friend Lady Amos will, with the leave of the House, repeat a Statement that is being made in another place on volcanic eruptions in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
House of Lords' Offices: Select Committee Report
3.7 p.m.
The Chairman of Committees (Lord Tordoff): My Lords, I beg to move that the Third Report from the Select Committee be agreed to.
Moved, That the Third Report from the Select Committee (HL Paper 54) be agreed to.—(The Chairman of Committees.)
Following is the report referred to:
- The Committee have met and been attended by the Clerk of the Parliaments and the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.
- 1. Membership of Sub-Committees
- The Committee appointed Baroness Williams of Crosby to the Finance and Staff Sub-Committee in place of Lord Rodgers of Quarry Bank, and Lord Cope of Berkeley to the Administration and Works Sub-Committee in place of Lord Henley.
- 2. Fielden House
- The Committee were gratified to learn of the purchase by the House during the Summer Recess of Fielden House on a 999 year lease. Fielden House is situated opposite 1 The Abbey Garden on the corner of Little College Street and will provide potential accommodation space for the House in the order of 12-13,000 square feet, spread over approximately 50 rooms.
- The property was sold by way of a competitive bidding process. The House of Lords' bid, which proved successful, was made after consultation with the Treasury and with professional valuation advice.
- The building will need complete refurbishment. The allocation of the additional accommodation is currently under consideration by the Administration and Works Sub-Committee. When decisions have been taken, designs will be drawn up to enable works to begin in the Autumn of 2002 with a view to occupancy in late 2004.
- 3. Lords' Reimbursement Allowances
- The Committee took note of the annual uprating of the following allowances, in line with the retail price index, with effect from 1 August 2001:
- Overnight subsistence by £1 per day to £122
- Day subsistence by £1 per day to £61
- Secretarial costs by £1 per day to £51
- Secretarial costs for non-sitting periods by £40 per annum to £2,040.
- 4. Salaries of the Chairman and Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees
- The Committee approved revised salaries for the Chairman of Committees (from £68,283 to £70,283 per annum) and the Principal Deputy Chairman of Committees (from £63,626 to £65,626 per annum), with effect from 20 June 2001, following similar salary increases for Ministers and other paid office holders.
- 5. Staff of the House
- The Committee approved the creation of a new post to provide secretarial support to the Accountant and his Deputy at span C3; the making permanent a temporary C2 post in the Accountants' Office; the re-grading of the post of Assistant to the Internal Auditor from span C2 to B2; the creation of a post of House of Lords Webmaster on 2-year basis at span B2, to provide expertise and management for the House of Lords Intranet. The Committee also agreed to contribute 25 per cent to the cost of a new joint Lords and Commons post of Parliamentary Website Content Manager at span B1, to manage the accuracy, timeliness and consistency of Parliament's Internet website.
The structure of the Offices Committee, as the Chairman of Committees and everyone else will be aware, is somewhat complex, and it takes a long time for its reports to come before your Lordships. A steering group was set up nearly a year ago, and we still have not had an opportunity to debate its work. I understand that a further consideration is now being put in place. When can we expect to see that report and
will the House have an opportunity to decide on it, rather than the usual channels, who normally dominate such matters?
The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for confirming my salary. Actually, it is not technically a matter for the House; the House is merely informed of it, I am pleased to say.
Noble Lords will remember that, just before the Summer Recess, I announced that a further working party had been set up to take on the work that had been done by the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, and others. That group has completed its investigation, and the report is in final draft form. I hope that it will be completed by tomorrow. It will then be sent to the Offices Committee for discussion at a special meeting on 13th February. I intend to put a copy of the report in the Library at that stage.
On the basis of what the Offices Committee decides to do, the matter will, presumably, come before the House as a report from the Offices Committee and will then be debated.
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Sex Discrimination (Election Candidates) Bill
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, I understand that no amendments have been set down to this Bill and that no noble Lord has indicated a wish to move a manuscript amendment or to speak in Committee. Unless, therefore, any noble Lord objects, I beg to move that the order of commitment be discharged.
Moved, That the order of commitment be discharged.—(Lord Williams of Mostyn.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Football (Disorder) (Amendment) Bill
3.10 p.m.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Bassam of Brighton.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
House in Committee accordingly.
[THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES in the Chair.]
Clause 1 [Repeal of provisions of Football (Disorder) Act 2000]:
Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 1:
- Page 1, line 2, leave out "In"
The noble Lord said: Members of the Committee will recall that at Second Reading I explained at length why the Government believe there to be a compelling good cause for maintaining Sections 14B, 21A and 21B on the statute book.
The measures contained in the Bill are, I believe, a tailored, proportionate and effective response to English football disorder abroad. They strike the right balance between national and international interests and individual civil liberties. They have undergone a thorough practical and legal examination in the past 18 months. In that regard, I argue that they have not been found wanting.
To lose the measures in August next year would, in our view, send out a negative message to our European partners, undermine English and Welsh anti-hooligan strategy and weaken the powers of the police and courts to act against the thugs. It would also be seen as an encouragement to hooligans to resume the pattern of repeat offending overseas at precisely the time when England is preparing to embark on its Euro 2004 campaign.
In recent weeks, we have all received a timely reminder that the menace of domestic hooliganism has not been eradicated. Of course we must be careful not to draw too many conclusions from events in Cardiff and the copy-cat behaviour elsewhere. There is no evidence of the return of the virulent strain of mass hooliganism which marred our national game in the 1970s and 1980s and tarnished our reputation. However, the shameful scenes in Cardiff reinforced why government, the police and the football authorities must avoid any hint of complacency.
It is equally important that Members of this Chamber and the other place remain ever vigilant. We must ensure that the police and the courts have the powers they need to nip in the bud any resurgence of the hooligan phenomena.
However, the Government recognise that the measures in question are radical and that their impact warrants careful scrutiny. The Government also understand why many Members of the Committee are of the view that the provisions need to be tested for a longer period of time before being firmly enshrined, without time limit, on the statute book.
That is why during Second Reading I announced that the Government were prepared to initiate a further trial period. Amendment No. 2 is the outcome. I am delighted to be able to say today that the noble Viscount, Lord Bridgeman, and the noble Lord, Lord McNally, have felt able to add their names to it. We therefore have all-party agreement to the approach being adopted.
The amendment seeks to extend the lifespan of the measures in Sections 14B, 21A and 21B for a further five years, whereupon they will either lapse or be renewed by statute. The Government have opted for a five-year period following careful consideration and study of the international football calendar. A five-year period will enable the powers to be in place for the 2006 World Cup in Germany and, importantly, for the 2008 European Championship qualifying matches which will take place while these measures undergo further parliamentary scrutiny.
I want to repeat the commitment I gave at Second Reading regarding the submission to Parliament of further impact reports on how the measures are
progressing. Detailed reports will be submitted before the question of renewal is resurrected and at ad hoc periods during the next five years should the need arise.I am most grateful to both parties for their careful consideration of the proposition I put to them between Second Reading and Committee stage and I am delighted that they have joined the Government today in supporting the amendments. Amendment No. 1 is of course a paving amendment for Amendment No. 2. I hope that all Members of the Committee will support the amendment and I beg to move.
3.15 p.m.
Lord McNally: I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation of Amendment No. 1. When I looked at the Marshalled List I realised that although I had been invited to put my name to Amendment No. 2 I had not been invited to put my name to Amendment No. 1 and I began to try to find some squalid back-stage deal between the Labour and Conservative Front Benches. However, the Minister's explanation has put my mind at ease. I want to make clear the fact that we on these Benches support both the paving and substantive amendments.
Perhaps I may take up a couple of minutes of the Committee's time in putting the matter in context. As the Government and Minister know, we on these Benches have been concerned about the civil liberties aspect of the matter. My noble friend Lord Phillips has been firm on it and his absence today does not reflect the fact that he has weakened his concern but that, like me, he accepts that a five-year trial period is sensible and covers crucial periods.
I hope that the football authorities at all levels use that five-year period to try to get to the root of the problem in both domestic and international games. When we previously debated the matter before Christmas it was a particularly emotive time in the wake of the trial of the Leeds players and the focus on football that that produced.
However, the sad fact is that in only a few weeks since Second Reading the situation has become worse rather than better. There have been examples in the domestic game on and off the field of disorder created by players; of disorder at grounds; and a deterioration in the public esteem of football. If the football authorities do not realise that the cycle of violence on the field and the terraces and the misconduct of players away from the game is in grave danger of causing permanent damage to the game, they are even more short-sighted than they appear. Violence, foul language and racism is still too endemic in our football.
As was said at Second Reading, and it bears repetition, leadership from the top is required; that is, from the FA and from the chairmen and their boards. Many board chairmen invest heavily in corporate social responsibility in companies outside football. It is time for football to do likewise. Under Gordon Taylor, the players' union has in many ways done
some admirable work at all levels, but I should like to see much more leadership from the union, instilling a sense of responsibility into what is now the extremely privileged group playing football at the highest level.I turn to the role of the national media. It is no use football correspondents tut-tutting about behaviour when they are gathered around a table in a Sky television studio, but then, when they write for their newspapers, whipping up all kinds of animosity and xenophobia for games both domestic and international. En passant, I wonder what Ladbrokes.com was thinking when it placed the following advert in the London Evening Standard:
- "Bet tax free on the dirtiest game since naked mud wrestling"?
I am glad that the Minister has promised to produce regular reports on the effectiveness of the Act. I hope that the Bassam committee set up to look at these matters is kept in being and continues to report and to stimulate action not only in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, but also in the Home Office, thus ensuring that we get proper, joined-up government.
I welcome the belated appointment of Professor Derek Fraser as the new independent football commissioner, although it appears that he will head up the sporting equivalent of the Press Complaints Commission. Professor Fraser will need to establish very early on the fact that he has not been appointed simply as a stable-door slammer or as an apologist for what is wrong in football; rather he should ensure that the Independent Football Commission is a regulatory body with teeth. However, early reports are not very promising.
At some stage I should like either the Select Committee in the Commons or even perhaps a Select Committee of this House to look at this matter. Such a committee could bring some of the various bodies into the public gaze and thus make them justify their behaviour. Ultimately, of course, all this boils down to the behaviour of the individual football fan, but so many influences could be brought to bear by those who bear real responsibility. Furthermore, there are opportunities to improve the image of soccer.
It is worth reminding the Committee that the game itself is played with immensely more skill and that the performances of the players are beyond the dreams of only about a decade ago. One of the good things for which we can take credit is that, after the tragedies of Hillsborough and Heysel, we have learnt the lessons and today our stadia are among the best in the world. As I have said, many opportunities are available. In my remarks on Second Reading I said that many good
things are being done by individual football teams. Yesterday I found it heart-warming to read that Niall Quinn, the Sunderland player, is giving away to charity the entire proceeds of his testimonial, estimated in the region of £1 million. Perhaps one of our television companies could make that donation even larger by broadcasting the game.
So it is not all bad news, but a strong message needs to be sent out if we are going to make the Act work; that is, the Act cannot be considered as a stand-alone measure, it will need a great deal of thoughtful action taken by many different bodies as well as by individuals with real responsibility in this area. In that respect, we wish the amendment well.
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