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Lord Whitty: My Lords, many recommendations in the report indicate ways in which the Government can
help in bringing farmers in closer touch with consumers. One of the problems with the present subsidy process is that it distorts price signals and market signals to which farmers relate. We believe that a more direct and a more business-like approach, if you like, to farming and its output and also to relationships within the food chain is important. Suspicions and distortions result from the food chain being so extended and remote, particularly in certain sectors. The Government will help the industry to address those problems through the proposed food chain centre. We need to co-operate not only with the industry but also with the devolved administrations in our response to the report.As regards environmental payments, clearly one of the considerations for the Government to develop in negotiation with the European Union is how exactly we can shift from pillar one to pillar two and the nature of the environmental support that we intend to give. The commission suggests that we should have a broad and shallow entrance level for agriculture to meet basic and important environmental standards. That seems to us sensible. Many current agri-environment schemes need rationalising both as regards their scope and their bureaucracy. It is a complicated matter but I believe that the commission has it broadly right.
Lord Boardman: My Lords, I am a farmer in partnership with my elder son who is the working partner. I am grateful to the Minister for repeating the Statement but I am concerned about it. Like most noble Lords, I read it quickly and I am not able to discuss points that no doubt will arise on food, retail supermarkets and the like.
However, as regards farming, I found it unhelpful. The prospects for farming, which is going through a bad time, are conditional upon making fresh terms as regards the CAP. I believe that the noble Lord referred to the year 2002 in that regard, but it is clear in the commission's report that no progress at all will be made before 2005 or 2006. Without serious alterations to the CAP, the scheme to strip farmers of more subsidies—I refer to the modulation payment and moving from one pillar to another—will only worsen their position. I find that extremely depressing.
The Minister also referred to various provisions for better business training. I do not think that farmers want to be faced with further bureaucracy. During the foot and mouth crisis they suffered immensely from the amount of form filling that was required. The form filling that was required in order to move stock about was quite terrifying. The document referred to trade associations being formed or merged. The NFU used to be feared by Labour governments. Indeed, it is still powerful. I hope that it will exercise its power well in proposing amendments to the commission's proposals.
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord made those comments with regard to the NFU. I regret that the NFU has in part rejected a major part of the report. I believe that constructive discussions with the NFU and further consideration will persuade
it that, at least in outline, there is much in the report that will help its members and the future of farming. We shall listen to it but it is noticeable that the NFU is the only outside organisation which has condemned a significant part of the report. I accept that it will have problems as regards modulation. I have said that the Government will also have some problems with modulation in its present form. We need to find a way of achieving what the report's objective as regards modulation attempts to achieve. I hope that we can do so in conjunction not only with the NFU but also with the other elements within the food chain.The commission's proposals seek to put more money into farming, land management and the rural economy than is the case at the moment. I say that cautiously as that has to be considered in terms of the spending review and we must conduct our own internal negotiations. However, on the basis of the report, no farmer should fear that less money will be allocated to the economy with which they are concerned. However, the nature of it will change. Instead of having distorting production subsidies, the subsidies will increasingly be directed to man management and the delivery of environmental objectives. Over and above that, the ultimate objective is that farmers should operate as any other business. I believe that that is a desirable outcome for most farmers.
Lord Hylton: My Lords, I again declare my financial interest as an organic farmer with a dairy herd. Given our climate and our efficiency at producing grass, I find it surprising that the Statement says nothing whatever about self-sufficiency in milk and milk products and the need to balance imports and exports. I also find it strange that there is not one single solitary word in the Statement about organic farming, although it is mentioned in the report's recommendations. Are the Government aware—they must surely be—that at the present time 70 per cent of the growing consumption of organic food is imported? Would greater emphasis on that sector not help to reduce cereal surpluses, to increase biodiversity and to provide the sustainability on which everyone is so keen at the moment?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, the noble Lord will find that a substantial part of the report deals with organic farming, additional support for organic farming and other measures to increase environmentally sensitive farming. Therefore, organic farming is picked out as an area which deserves further support. As regards targets for self-sufficiency, Sir Don Curry made it clear that that was not an appropriate matter for the commission to consider. We are dealing with a global, competitive environment. However, we obviously believe that the steps that the report recommends the Government to take would lead to a high proportion of our food being produced by British—or, in this context, English—sources. It is therefore not sensible to have a Stalinist plan stating that 79.3 per cent of our production should be for our own consumption. The plan gives to the farming sector and the food chain as
a whole the ability to provide good, safe, nutritious food for British consumers. Its ability to meet that is, in a sense, up to it and not a matter for government.
Baroness Carnegy of Lour: My Lords, I have to declare a very peripheral interest in that I am the tenant of a farmer, who farms the farm that I used to farm for 35 years. I now rent my house from him, so I have an interest in that I live in the middle of the farm.
I hope that the old politics of agriculture will not squash the report and make it impossible to move in relation to it. There is much vision in it. For the first time, it looks in the round at the whole question of the way in which we grow our food. There is much in it on which I hope we shall move forward.
I say to the Government that everything depends on their moving forward in relation to the CAP. Most of what is suggested in dependent on the CAP being changed. Modulation will help a little. We know that there are problems for everyone in that regard; that approach involves flexibility in one area. It is very important for the Government to press on in this context and to stop prevaricating when they meet our friends in Europe.
The situation with the devolved administrations is rather strange because the remit did not say that only England was involved. However, the report states on many occasions that it is talking about England. Obviously, the CAP, supermarkets, the food chain and disease relate to the whole of the United Kingdom. It is extremely important for the Government to get the devolved administrations to look very seriously and imaginatively at the report; they should do so now, rather than wait, and begin talking with the Westminster Government about what they will do. This is a UK matter. I beg noble Lords not to be so negative about the report that we do not get anywhere.
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I welcome those remarks. It is important for us to engage the devolved administrations, who have produced their own government strategies. There may be differences between our approaches because there are different types of farming in different parts of the United Kingdom.
We must have an approach to the CAP that suits all parts of the UK. Reform of the CAP is key in that regard. To be realistic, we shall probably begin to negotiate the mid-term review after the French elections later this year. In that timescale, we shall begin to address the longer-term changes in the CAP, which will come into effect after 2006. In terms of changing the direction of the CAP, this is a crucial time, in view of internal pressures and the pressures from enlargement and the World Trade Organisation agreement. The next two years will see an enormous amount of intensive negotiation on the CAP. That will very much be a government priority.
Lord Rea: My Lords, the Minister will be aware of my interest in food and health. Chapter 5 of the report has some extremely useful recommendations. In fact,
they are so good that they could form the basis of—but not the complete policy towards—a national food policy.The report promotes one rather nice scheme in particular, which is called the "Food Dudes Programme" and which is intended for schools. The report states:
- "The programme has two main elements: video adventures featuring hero figures called Food Dudes, who like fruit and vegetables and provide effective social models for the children to imitate; and small rewards (stickers, notebooks, pencils) to ensure that children begin to taste the foods".
The report contains another interesting recommendation. It states:
- "We note . . . that the scheme will demand 1.5 million tonnes of fruit",
- "which English farmers are well-placed to provide. We challenge the industry to rise to this challenge".
I appreciate that that is a question partly for the Department of Health and partly for the Department for Education and Skills but what are the Minister's thoughts on how to encourage farmers to grow more fruit?
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