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Lord Maginnis of Drumglass moved Amendment No. 1:
- Page 1, line 10, after "completed;" insert—
The noble Lord said: I have received a letter from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Williams of Mostyn, seeking to assure me that the Government will table amendments that are in line with my Amendments Nos. 1, 3 and 5 which seek to empower the chief electoral officer to collect a national insurance number, if there is one, on each application to join the electoral register. The noble and learned Lord has also assured me that the Bill will be amended to require absentee voters to state their national insurance number on applications for a postal or proxy vote. His letter concluded by saying that such action will prove effective in our efforts to combat electoral fraud.
I believe that requiring voters' national insurance number, if they have one, in addition to their date of birth and signature would go some way to addressing the issue. I was therefore rather puzzled by the statement in another place of Mr Des Browne that it would be impossible for the chief electoral officer to check all one million or so individuals on the Northern Ireland electoral register. He asked in another place that an amendment that was similar to mine be withdrawn on the grounds that such a provision would be impractical.
I therefore hope that the Minister will tell us what he has in mind and whether Mr Des Browne might have overstated or misunderstood what we are trying to achieve. When we speak about electoral fraud in Northern Ireland, we are not talking simply about foolishness, individual perversity or mistakes; we are talking about behaviour that is so carefully orchestrated that anyone with any practical experience of Northern Ireland would doubt whether any Sinn Fein Member could have arrived as an elected Member of this Parliament without electoral fraud. My noble friend Lord Fitt was one of the first to suffer from electoral fraud. Joe Hendron also suffered from it in the West Belfast seat that is now held by Gerry Adams. More recently, the constituency which I represented for 18 years and from which I retired with a 14,000 majority suddenly experienced a swing because of orchestrated and organised abuse of normal electoral practice.
Not only do we have to take action to prevent people from illegally registering or illegally acquiring a proxy or postal vote; we also have to ensure that this legislation goes further by specifying the consequences for a party as well as for an individual of the orchestrated abuse of the electoral process. I believe that the legislation is currently weak in that respect.
Even after spending 18 years in another place, I am not a legislative expert. However, I do not believe that it is beyond the competence of Her Majesty's Government to include provisions in the Bill to deal with every aspect of electoral malpractice. I shall not go further into the matter now. I believe that the assurances which I have received in writing from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Williams of Mostyn, will be welcomed by all who want not only the survival of the democratic process in Northern Ireland but its retrenchment. For a number of years, it has been exploited in a manner that has not benefited society. I beg to move.
Lord Williams of Mostyn: Without wishing to pre-empt any noble Lord who might want to speak on the amendment, perhaps I may assist Members of the Committee. The noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, very generously referred to the letter that I wrote to him. I hope that I managed to write on 31st January to everyone in this House who I thought had a similar interest. If I confirm my position I believe that it will help debate on further amendments that are differently grouped but which, none the less, have a connection with the requirement for national insurance numbers to be given.
The noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, was quite right to say that these matters were raised in the other place. Indeed, they were also mentioned on Second Reading in this place when I promised faithfully that I would look at them with an open mind if they were improvements to the Bill that could be accepted or perhaps even improved upon consistent with the scheme of the Bill. I have had discussions with Mr Browne. We both pressed the case, which I believed was strongly held in Northern Ireland and
A good deal of further consideration has been given to these proposals. I am most grateful for the energy with which Mr Des Browne has pursued the issue regarding the use of national insurance numbers in the electoral process. We wanted to consider something that was workable and would not impose unduly heavy burdens. Therefore, I can confirm that I intend to bring forward amendments on Report to empower the Chief Electoral Officer to collect a person's national insurance number, if he has one, on his application to the electoral register. We do not propose that someone who does not have a number should simply obtain one for the purposes of registering. However, I should imagine that the vast majority of people do possess a national insurance number.
I turn to a matter that I know worries some noble Lords. We also intend to require absent voters to state their national insurance number on any application for a postal or proxy vote. As regards the noble Lord's other point about false information being given, I can confirm that it is our intention to bring forward further amendments in that respect. Anyone who supplies a false national insurance number, or states that he does not have a number when in fact he has, will be guilty of a criminal offence. We shall also enable the Chief Electoral Officer to make checks with the individual concerned, and with the Department for Works and Pensions, to satisfy himself of the authenticity of the claim made.
I hope that noble Lords will accept that as a positive response to the troubles and concerns expressed in this place. I intervened at this stage because the national insurance issue seems to recur in a number of different amendment groupings.
Lord Smith of Clifton: I thank the Minister for that further explanation. As the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, said, it was heartening to receive the noble and learned Lord's letter. This response recognises the scale of fraud that is taking place in Northern Ireland. The amendments to which I have attached my name, both as an originator and as a supporter, have been tabled because noble Lords on these Benches have a passionate belief in the need to maintain as good a democracy in Northern Ireland as we can manage. If members of Sinn Fein sincerely wish to embrace the principle of democracy and of representative government—and, indeed, to enjoy the facilities and the emoluments that go with elected office—it is absolutely vital that they abjure all electoral malpractices; and, equally importantly, that they do everything in their power to stamp them out among their supporters.
Intimidation and personation are the electoral equivalent of beatings and knee-cappings. Democracy requires free and open elections if it is to flourish in Northern Ireland, as anywhere else. Therefore, those of us who hinted on Second Reading that a requirement for national insurance numbers on
There is the further question of whether or not identity cards will be available. There is a real problem with many of these technological developments in that they are not always available on time. As was said in the previous debate, we must look forward to normality being restored in Northern Ireland. But until that is so, as the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, said, it is absolutely vital that we do everything that we can to shore up best democratic practice. That is why I can say with absolute vehemence from these Benches that we shall have no truck with any kind of electoral malpractice that goes on. If democracy in Northern Ireland is to take root, electoral malpractice has to be abolished. That is why we have tabled various amendments. We are most grateful that the Government feel able to accommodate us, especially as regards the national insurance provisions.
For the sake of brevity, I should point out that we shall not be pressing our amendments that seek to improve the identity card in certain respects, and so on. We look forward to hearing the Government's response on Report to those proposals.
Lord Glentoran: I, too, should like to thank the Minister for his letter. I am also grateful to him for his kindness and courtesy in keeping me informed of the progress that he was making on these matters. If we are able to include a requirement for the provision of national insurance numbers on registration as further proof of identity, it will be a great step forward for the Bill. I do not wish to become bogged down in bureaucracy, but I was a little concerned when the Minister referred to whether or not someone had such a number. I wonder how we can stop people bluffing through the process and claiming that they do not have one—or, indeed, pretending that they do not have one when they have—
Lord Williams of Mostyn: I was probably speaking rather too quickly in my earlier remarks. Perhaps I may clarify the situation. If someone claims that he does not have a national insurance number when he has, that will be a criminal offence.
"( ) the national insurance number of each such person, if he has one;"
4.30 p.m.
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