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Lord Elton: My Lords, when HMP Haslar moved from Prison Service to Home Office control, what changes took place among the staff, and what re-training took place if the same staff are still in the same establishment?
Lord Rooker: My Lords, re-training is on-going. The staff were not necessarily moved; they came under different control and a different set of rules. It is the facilities for the people being detained that have changed. The rules have changed from prison rules to detention rules. I appreciate that it is also a change for prison officers to move from operating under prison rules to operating under detention rules. Therefore re-training is taking place. It will necessarily take a short while before the culture at Haslar and Lindholme is the same as the culture at Harmondsworth, Tinsley, Dungavel and Yarl's wood, but the legal change took place on 8th February.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, is the Minister aware that there are difficulties in gaining access to the detention centre rules, particularly at Yarl's wood. While a copy of the rules may be lodged in the library there, there is not a notice on the publicly available notice board seen by the inmates that tells them how to access those rules in any language, even English.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, no one is detained in a removal centre without knowing why they are there. I must make it clear that they are not picked up and taken there without any knowledge of why they are there in the first place. As to the rules not being publicly available, I shall check on that matter. Yarl's wood is currently coming on stream. It is not fully operational in the sense that it is full to capacity and will not be so for a few months. It will have a large capacity, some 900. I visited the establishment during its early days when there were just over 100 people there and the rest of the facility was still being brought into operation. But, as I said, as far as I am aware, no one has made any complaint to my office about the rules not being made available. The noble Lord has done so on the Floor of the House and I shall check on the matter.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I recently visited Harmondsworth in my capacity as a member of the Immigration Appeal Tribunal? We were shown in very great detail all the procedures that are undertaken. It was extremely impressive. If all the centres are to be like Harmondsworth, then it is about time that the Home Office was congratulated on getting something right.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, on behalf of the staff and all those involved, I am grateful to the noble Countess for that vote of thanks. I, too, have visited Harmondsworth. It was built from scratch, from the signing of the contract to people being housed there, in about 10 months. It is an excellent example of what can be achieved as a result of partnership and co-operation. The facilities are excellent. It is necessarily a detention centre. It has been renamed a "removal" centre and that is what it is, not a prison but a removal centre. Therefore, people are not free to come and go. But we do our best to make people's stay there as fruitful and useful as possible and we try to make it less onerous. The centre is certainly a vast improvement on the previous arrangements.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords, following the incident last week in which the brakes of a Eurostar train were tampered with, putting passengers in danger, is the Minister aware that many people believe that criminals such as those involved should be put in gaol? Is it not a fact that asylum seekers from eastern Europe cannot now be fleeing from political persecution? They may be economic migrants; but they may also be criminals who are escaping punishment in their own country. Will the Minister take that into account in future policy-making relating to asylum seekers?
Lord Rooker: Yes, my Lords, there are occasions when we return people to their own country on the basis that their main claim was fear of prosecution rather than persecution. Taking an axe to sever brake cables on a moving train is outrageous. It is a threat to everyone concerned—those on the train as well as the clandestines. The matter is being looked into and I shall be having discussions later this week with the transport Minister.
Zimbabwe: Presidential Election
3.2 p.m.
Lord Howell of Guildford asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What further steps they are taking to ensure that the forthcoming presidential elections in Zimbabwe are both free and fair.
The Minister for Trade (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean): My Lords, Her Majesty's Government cannot ensure that the election in Zimbabwe is free and fair. However, we can, and are, doing our best to ensure maximum scrutiny of the election process, including the deployment of a European Union team on our terms. We remain determined that sanctions will be triggered if EU observers are refused entry or if they cannot work effectively. We shall continue to argue for Zimbabwe's suspension from the Commonwealth. We are working with regional and international partners, the EU, the United States, the Commonwealth and the South African Development Community.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. However, does she agree that with all the murder and mayhem, the harassment, the breaking up of opposition rallies, the dubious registration procedures and the exclusion of the media, including the BBC, the concepts of freedom and fairness in the forthcoming election have gone out of the window? Does she accept that the Article 96 procedure which the EU has been trying to follow seems to be getting into increasing difficulties, and that the whole EU policy is in doubt and looks rather like a broken reed? Does the Minister share with other people the view that it is time for the coalition of willing democracies, including the United States and Australia and some members of the Commonwealth, if not all, to come together to take decisive action to target with sanctions those who are responsible for these horrors, to prevent this tragedy turning into a paralysis of the whole of southern Africa?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I agree with a great deal of what the noble Lord has said. The situation is extremely grave. The noble Lord has pointed out the level of violence: there have indeed been 16 or 17 political murders in Zimbabwe since the beginning of the year. It is because the situation is so grave that I have given an unequivocal Answer on our determination over EU sanctions if our observers are not given access to carry out their work effectively. It is why I have given an unequivocal Answer about our continuing determination to argue for Zimbabwe's suspension from the Commonwealth. In the European Union, the COREPER is meeting this afternoon to discuss the latest moves by Zimbabwe over the exclusion of some EU observers. There will be a GAC next Monday, and we shall meet again prior to the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting; namely, at a Commonwealth ministerial meeting on 1st March in Australia.
Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, the Minister mentioned some of the recent atrocities in Zimbabwe, which include the torturing of three opposition MPs campaigning just before the weekend; the fishing out of the river of the body of the youth leader in Masvingo province who had, of course, been drowned; and most recently the petrol bombing of the one independent newspaper in Harare, the Daily News. In the light of all that, will the Minister reconsider the possibility of sanctions being directed not merely to protect EU monitors but at those who are attacking democratic opposition forces in Zimbabwe? In particular, is the Minister aware—as I understand from sources about which I have informed the Foreign Secretary—that President Mugabe's government now regard the threats from the EU and the Commonwealth as empty hot air? In the light of that, will she consider whether specific sanctions, such as the freezing of the assets of the administration, might be imposed now, before the election campaign is completed?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, as I indicated, I believe that these matters will be under discussion in the EU not only today but next Monday.
They will be under discussion in the Commonwealth at the earliest possible opportunity, on 1st March, before the elections take place. Of course I agree with the noble Baroness about some of the disgraceful actions that have been perpetrated in Zimbabwe. What decent person could not agree with the forceful point that she has made? However, I believe that the sanctions being considered will not be targeted at Zimbabweans in general—I am sure that we all agree that the population of that country has suffered appallingly in terms of what has happened to its economy, the growth in unemployment and the spread of AIDS and other dreadful diseases. We hope that any sanctions are indeed, as the noble Baroness said, targeted at those who have perpetrated these wrongs.
Lord Acton: My Lords, for 14 years I was married to the Zimbabwean civil rights campaigner, Judith Todd. I must also declare that I have many Shona, Ndebele and other, white, friends in that country. Is my noble friend aware that, yesterday, my former wife's 93 year-old father, Sir Garfield Todd, former Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia and a former Zimbabwean senator, issued a statement in which he announced that he had been informed that he had been deprived of his citizenship and his right to vote? Can my noble friend add anything to this?
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