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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the Government are committed to developing an organic food and farming action plan following the recommendations of the Curry commission. That will consider the strategy for the future direction of organic
farming and assess potential growth for UK production and the market. Alongside that, the Food Standards Agency is reviewing the issue of farm assurance schemes which is important in terms of the consumer knowing and understanding what various labels mean.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, further to what the noble Lord has just said about farm assurance schemes, does he agree that, in addition to organic food, there is room for food that has been produced with a minimum of inputs of fertilisers, pesticides and veterinary medicines, and a staged assurance scheme which indicates how that food has been produced? Will the Minister ask the Food Standards Agency to consider that matter?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am happy to draw the noble Countess's remarks to the attention of the Food Standards Agency. The substantive point that she raises is that the consumer wishes to know more about the food that he or she buys. Our intention is to ensure—the Food Standards Agency has made representations on this matter in Europe—that labelling is as accurate and comprehensive as possible. I believe that that relates both to organic and non-organic food.
Lord Carrington: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that organic honey is on sale everywhere? Would he be good enough to let the bees know about that?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I shall certainly draw the bees' attention to the noble Lord's comments.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will agree that one can buy plenty of good Scottish beef which has never done anyone anything but good.
Martin Sixsmith
2.59 p.m.
Baroness Blatch asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions was informed or consulted about any proposal to transfer Mr Martin Sixsmith to another post within the Civil Service.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions (Lord Falconer of Thoroton): My Lords, I refer the noble Baroness to the Statement that I repeated to the House yesterday, which dealt with these matters. In that Statement, my right honourable friend referred to the discussions between Mr Sixsmith and Sir Richard Mottram. He said that he was not directly involved in those
discussions but that he made it clear to Sir Richard that in his view Mr Sixsmith should not be given a job elsewhere in government. He went on:
- "Ultimately, I was not in a position to block any arrangement about his future employment elsewhere in the Civil Service, and I accepted that discussions between Sir Richard Mottram and Mr Sixsmith would continue".—[Official Report, 26/2/02; col. 1342.]
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord agree that the serious outcome of yesterday's Statement was that the Secretary of State brought the Civil Service and good governance into disrepute? He blamed civil servants for the fiasco in his department, he sought to interfere to end the career of a named civil servant and he publicly denigrated other civil servants before any inquiry. He has admitted to misleading the public on national television and he has been warmly supported for that behaviour by the Prime Minister. What a shameful state of affairs! Will the noble and learned Lord explain how we will know when a Secretary of State is telling the truth?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I do not agree with any of those premises. The Secretary of State is engaged in trying to improve the transport system in this country, and that is what he should be engaged in.
Lord Richard: My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness who asked the Question had an opportunity to look at the faces of those sitting around her? Is my noble and learned friend aware that those faces suggest—as do those on this side of the House—that she is flogging a dead horse? Is my noble and learned friend aware—he should know better than most, because he repeated the Statement yesterday—that the question was firmly answered yesterday? Will he recall, for the benefit of the House, the gentle, delicate, subdued and even reluctant way in which Mr Ingham dealt with the press and various members of his own government at the time? Does my noble and learned friend agree that compared to that master of the black art of spinning, the present generation of government information officers has a great deal to learn?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, first, it would be unwise and infelicitous of me to comment on the faces of the people around the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch. Those faces are smiling radiantly at the moment and looked suddenly interested when my noble friend asked me to describe what they looked like. Secondly, this matter was fully dealt with—for more than an hour—yesterday in this House. The appropriate step is to go on and examine how one can improve transport. On the third matter, I am much too young to remember Mr Bernard Ingham, but I have read that when he was acting on behalf of the then Prime Minister he would brief against members of the Cabinet when they were still in the Cabinet.
Lord McNally: My Lords, will the Minister therefore comment on a horse that is very much alive? In today's The Times, Mr Peter Riddell writes:
- "The latest row reinforces the case for early Civil Service legislation ... But 10 Downing Street has been slowing down the promised consultation over legislation".
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I am not aware of any such blockage. I repeat what I said yesterday. The Government have committed themselves to a Civil Service Bill when time allows. That remains our position. I also draw the noble Lord's attention to the point made today by the noble Lord, Lord Butler, who is not in his place; namely, that no Bill or Act of Parliament is going to prescribe for personal relations. He said that in the vast majority of cases, relations between special advisers and civil servants are good, and that is the position in this Government. No Bill is going to make that better or worse.
Lord Waddington: My Lords, in the past, have not Ministers resigned when they were caught out lying? Is not that a desirable practice?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, it is for each individual Minister to make a decision about whether his career continues.
Lord Corbett of Castle Vale: My Lords, may I tell the Minister that the people of Birmingham—
Lord Corbett of Castle Vale: My Lords, may I ask noble Lords to let me demonstrate that when I begin a sentence with the word "may", I finish with a question mark—as I have just done? May I tell the Minister that the people of Birmingham, when they are not talking about the need to site the national football stadium on the edge of the city, are much more interested in obtaining better public transport and more efficient services from local councils rather than being bothered about who is working in a Whitehall press office?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, my noble friend certainly may tell me that. May I also say that the views that my noble friend attributes to the people of Birmingham are shared by people throughout the country? They want the concentration to be not on office politics, as the noble Viscount, Lord Astor, described it yesterday, but on making the transport system work.
Viscount Astor: My Lords, have not the Government sought to establish a new principle for Cabinet Ministers—that they can be economical with the truth on Sunday morning on television and stay in office? There was not even a proper apology yesterday; just an expression of regret in the Secretary of State's Statement.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, no, they have not.
Lord Merlyn-Rees: My Lords, is my noble friend aware that when I came in through the Peers' Entrance about an hour ago, there was a kerfuffle across the road and a noise? I said to the policeman, "What's it all about?" He said, "There is one chap". "What's he doing?" "He's shouting, 'Keep your hands off Stephen Byers!'" Listening to the Question of the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, and the Answer made me wonder whether it was Bernard Ingham off his head.
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