| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Lord for giving way. Would he accept that we are neither friends nor enemies, that we do not really know each other and that if he is going to write about me to the Commons Clerk of a committee why on earth does he not give me some notice? Why write? Why do all this even on the advice of the noble Lord, Lord Lester? Why do a thing like this without giving notice?
Lord Clement-Jones: My Lords, I am not going to prolong this discussion much further. I have explained the background and apologised to the noble Lord. The fact is that he is a member of that committee and received a copy of the letter as part of the committee papers. There was no personal complaint against him and it seemed quite proper that this matter should have been between myself and the Clerk—I asked him to place a matter on the committee's agenda. I was advised that the Clerk was the proper person to write to and I believe that the committee dealt with the matter entirely properly, as subsequent events have shown. That is my position.
On the substance of the amendment, my noble friend Lord Lester, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, and the ministerial letter set out the position very clearly. All the points in the amendment are, as a matter of law, available in any event.
Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, has made a very distinguished contribution to the House over many years and to this Bill. I hope that he will accept the explanations presented by my noble friends, which were given with full honesty and generosity. It would be a great shame if our debate on this milestone of a Bill, to which the noble Lord has contributed, ended on a note of personal disharmony. I hope that he feels able to accept the statements made from these Benches.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Clement-Jones moved Amendment No. 63A:
- After Clause 16, insert the following new clause—
On Question, amendment agreed to.
[Amendments Nos. 64 and 65 not moved.]
Clause 19 [Transitional provisions: sponsorship]:
Baroness O'Cathain moved Amendment No. 65A:
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, said earlier that he wants the Bill to contain as few exemptions as possible. If the Bill is so important to the health of the nation, there should in logic be no exemptions at all. In our debate on the sunset clause, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, gave some impressive statistical data and research results, which led me—and, I am sure, most other noble Lords—to have absolutely no doubt about the fact that banning advertising and promotion will save lives. I therefore find it very difficult to accept any delay in implementation.
Since our debate in Committee, my attention has been drawn to a study known as the Keith Durrant project. It was commissioned by the Oxford health authority and undertaken by Wendy Fidler. It is entitled, The Influence of the Adult Role Model of Smoking in Children as Young as Three to Five Years Old. The role models that young boys—and, in some cases, young girls—look up to are not just pop stars; they are also Formula 1 drivers and snooker players. I therefore find it difficult to accept the proposed exemption of Formula 1 and snooker. Those sports have a huge potential to glamorise tobacco and they provide role models. If the proposed exemption for Formula 1 and snooker were removed by the Government, that would send a very powerful signal to young people in particular that smoking and its promotion were strongly discouraged.
Additionally, the Ecclestone affair left a bitter taste and the feeling that government policy—principled and empirically based—could be watered down as a result of special pleading from a source that had provided substantial donations to the Labour Party. The Government now have an opportunity fully to put that episode behind them.
While it is true that Formula 1 may suffer in the short term, many people believe that tobacco sponsorship would swiftly be replaced by other more benign forms of sponsorship, which might perhaps be at more generous levels than the tobacco companies had provided. Indeed, to judge by recent press reports, some Formula 1 teams have already been hit by the
Lord Peston: My Lords, perhaps I may intervene briefly. In Committee I stated how sympathetic I was to the views that the noble Baroness has just expressed. I want to go on record as saying that I have not changed my mind. On the other hand, on viewing the Bill I believe that 90 per cent of the loaf is better than none. Having made that point, that is all that one can say.
However, I want to make one additional point. If the BBC were to stick to the letter of its charter and if the ITV were to show some public responsibility, then neither of these possibly exempted sports would appear on terrestrial television. In that case, there would be no pay-off to the sponsorship and we should not have this problem. One should bear in mind how the sponsorship works. It works because the television companies essentially do not respond in a proper public way. I wanted to place that point on the record, too.
Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, I am not sure that the noble Lord, Lord Peston, is right. In my experience, the television companies bend over backwards to avoid showing advertisements on the side of an arena or football ground. Sometimes, of course, it is unavoidable, depending on the play, in which case the advertisements are almost always out of focus.
From a sedentary position, my noble friend made the point that players sometimes wear strips, as I believe they are called—it is not exactly my subject—which may have the effect of promoting a tobacco product. That makes it much more difficult for the television companies. I do not believe that the television companies are principally to blame. Other people are to blame, and blame is certainly appropriately "castable", for want of a better expression.
So far as concerns my noble friend's amendment, I believe that it is perhaps going a little far to leave the entire clause out of the Bill. However, every sponsor should be treated alike. Therefore, there should not be any special date at any particular time. If the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and, indeed, the Minister intend to reject my noble friend's kill-all proposal, perhaps they would be good enough to accept mine.
Lord Geddes: My Lords, I intervene wholly to reinforce what my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale has just said. If there is to be a cut-off date, then surely it must be common right across the board, regardless of the type of sport or activity. It is invidious that there should be any exceptions to a general rule.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, first, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady O'Cathain, for raising this matter and, of course, for her general
One theme that we have discussed throughout the Bill is the need to take a balanced and proportionate approach. That is why the Government wish to see some leeway given to sports in particular; they would not wish to see the ban having a long-term negative impact on those sports. Therefore, the Government took the view that, subject to consultation, most sponsorship of sporting events should end by 2003. Global sporting events, which receive considerable income from tobacco interests, should be given until October 2006 to do the same, provided, first, that they do not sign new contracts with tobacco companies and, secondly, that they phase out the current sponsorship that they receive. That is a perfectly reasonable approach: first, to accept that sporting events need some time in order to prepare for the withdrawal of tobacco sponsorship; and, secondly, to accept that those international sports where tobacco sponsorship has contributed such a huge proportion of the income that they receive should be given a little longer.
To those who fear that that will have a wholly negative impact on sports organisations in general I say that the task force that was set up by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and the continued advice that is available from the department, are available to those sports organisations and they are in a position to take advantage of that. Overall, it is perfectly reasonable to allow a little time for most sports and a littler longer time for those international sports that have relied so much on tobacco sponsorship, but at the end of the day, by 1st October 2006, all tobacco sponsorship will be removed.
"DEFENCES: BURDEN OF PROOF
(1) This section applies where a person charged with an offence under this Act relies on a defence under any of sections 5(1) to (6), 6(1), 9(4), 10(3) and (4) and 15(3).
(2) Where evidence is adduced which is sufficient to raise an issue with respect to that defence, the court or jury shall assume that the defence is satisfied unless the prosecution proves beyond reasonable doubt that it is not."
Leave out Clause 19.
4.30 p.m.
Next Section
Back to Table of Contents
Lords Hansard Home Page