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Lord Swinfen: There have been numerous complaints about the difficulties experienced by people with disabilities in voting in both parliamentary and local elections for many years. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Ashley, will accept the amendment and that when the Bill becomes law the Government will ensure that the proposed new clause is put into action very quickly indeed.
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My noble friend Lord Bassam and I, having spent many years in local government, have sympathy with the thrust of the amendment. Clearly, under the Representation of the People Act, it is desirable to have full access to polling stations. Obviously, that issue is being pursued. However, sometimes balances need to be taken between the convenience of a location, which may be a local school as opposed to somewhere much further away.
My noble friend Lady Wilkins did not mention postal voting; the noble Baroness, Lady Darcy de Knayth, did. She said that she hated to think that her vote, cast three days before, would have winged on its way. I was appalled at the thought that she was a last-minute floating voter who would seek to change her mind in the last two or three days on major issues affecting the well-being of this country. If that is what being a Cross-Bencher consists of, I am not at all sure that it is a wise use of their powers.
It is clear that the Electoral Commission will probe this issue.
Lord Swinfen: The Minister is doing the noble Baroness, Lady Darcy de Knayth a great disservice.
She had obviously taken a long time to think very seriously about the matter and given it a great deal more thought than a lot of voters who automatically vote for one party or another.
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: I am sure that she had. It was the thought that she may have wanted to change her mind in the last 48 hours that dismayed me. It was a tease.
Coming back to the more substantive point, I have been doing some work on postal ballots and the use of e-mail, mobile polling stations and a range of voting hours in which one can express one's vote. The Committee may be interested to know that my own local authority—I do not know whether my noble friend Lord Bassam has had the same experience—was one of the pilot authorities for all postal ballots. In two of the wards in the City of Norwich, the only way one could vote was by postal ballot. Far from this being stigmatised, the result in those two wards was that the voting rate went up by more than 50 per cent.
It is an example, following the question that we debated the other day, that if you provide physical access for disabled people a whole swathe of other people benefit in consequence. Here was a case clearly where many people had regarded themselves as debarred from voting for whatever reason—they might have children, caring responsibilities or whatever—and were able to enjoy the much more appropriately generous provisions of the new postal ballot system, which does not require the "medicalisation" of a form in order to achieve access to a postal vote. As a result, the voting rate in those two wards went up by 50 per cent.
I am sure my noble friend Lady Wilkins will agree that what matters is the access to the service and not necessarily to the building. Of course it is desirable that there should be access to buildings but, ultimately, what really counts is access to the service. I hope that she will join with me in recognising that there are important moves afoot which will benefit a very wide range of the community.
Baroness Darcy de Knayth: I intervene because I cannot resist the bait thrown to me by the Minister. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Swinfen, for his defence of me.
I have always argued with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Croy, who has always said that a postal vote is perfectly satisfactory. But the point is that a huge number of able-bodied members of the public do not make a voting decision until the last few days before an election. This Cross-Bencher would like a vote on what the noble Baroness may consider to be an important matter; namely, the euro.
Lord Ashley of Stoke: I, too, congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Swinfen, not because I agree with him—in this particular controversy I tend to support my noble
friend—but because he is so perceptive. He used the phrase, "when the Bill becomes law". He did not say "if" it becomes law, but "when" it becomes law. I give the noble Lord full marks for perception. I am glad that the Minister has heard those words.The exclusion of disabled people from polling stations, and indeed from much of the electoral process, never seemed to bother the general public years ago. But it did bother disabled people. It troubles them even more today, now that, fortunately, they are discarding their former passivity and are very properly calling for full human rights. This amendment will help to resolve the problem and I accept it.
Baroness Wilkins: I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. I, too, want to defend my noble friend Lady Darcy in regard to her wise decisions. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Ashley, for accepting the amendment. I commend it to the Committee.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Astor of Hever moved Amendment No. 13:
- After Clause 7, insert the following new clause—
The noble Lord said: The amendment stands also in the name of my noble friend Lord Swinfen. It places new duties on minicabs to carry guide dogs and assistance dogs. This mirrors the duties already in force for licensed taxis, which include exemptions for drivers on valid medical grounds only.
Guide dog owners rely on reliable and accessible taxi and minicab services. However, the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association (GDBA) and the RNIB have heard from countless guide dog owners who have been refused carriage in minicabs because drivers have not wanted dogs in their cars. Objections have ranged from "Dogs will distract the driver" to "Don't want dog hairs on the seats", or "Dogs always have muddy paws and bring dirt in with them".
Over the past 18 months, the GDBA has persuaded 85 per cent of local authorities in England and Wales to require minicabs to carry assistance dogs as part of the licence conditions. However, 66 local authorities
Although the Bill covers the means of transport, the GDBA and the RNIB feel that this amendment is needed so that guide dog owners are not subject to the vagaries of case law determining whether the carriage of guide dogs is a reasonable adjustment. Without the amendment, private hire operators and drivers could, for example, try to use cost as an argument for not accepting guide dogs. I very much hope that, this time, the noble Lord, Lord Ashley, will accept the amendment. I beg to move.
"CARRYING OF GUIDE DOGS, HEARING DOGS AND OTHER ASSISTANCE DOGS
(1) The 1995 Act is amended as follows.
(2) In Part V, after section 37, insert—
"37A CARRYING OF GUIDE DOGS, HEARING DOGS AND OTHER ASSISTANCE DOGS
(1) This section imposes duties on the driver of a private hire vehicle which has been hired—
(a) by or for a disabled person who is accompanied by his guide dog, hearing dog or other assistance dog, or
(b) by a person who wishes such a disabled person to accompany him in the private hire vehicle.
(2) The disabled person is referred to in this section as "the passenger".
(3) The duties are—
(a) to carry the passenger's dog and allow it to remain with the passenger; and
(b) not to make any additional charge for doing so.
(4) A driver of a private hire vehicle who fails to comply with any duty imposed on him by this section is guilty of an offence and liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
(5) If the licensing authority is satisfied that it is appropriate on medical grounds to exempt a person from the duties imposed by this section it shall issue him with a certificate of exemption.
(6) In determining whether to issue a certificate of exemption, the licensing authority shall, in particular, have regard to the physical characteristics of the private hire vehicle which the applicant drives or those of any kind of private hire vehicle in relation to which he requires the certificate.
(7) A certificate of exemption shall be issued—
(a) with respect to a specified private hire vehicle or a specified kind of private hire vehicle; and
(b) for such period as may be specified in the certificate.
(8) The driver of a private hire vehicle is exempt from the duties imposed by this section if—
(a) a certificate of exemption issued to him under this section is in force with respect to the private hire vehicle; and
(b) the prescribed notice of his exemption is exhibited on the private hire vehicle in the prescribed manner.
(9) In this section—
"guide dog" means a dog which has been trained to guide a blind person;
"hearing dog" means a dog which has been trained to assist a deaf person;
"assistance dog" means a dog which—
(a) is trained by a specified charity to assist a disabled person with a physical impairment for the purpose of section 1 of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 which—
(i) consists of epilepsy; or
(ii) otherwise affects his mobility, manual dexterity, physical co-ordination or ability to lift, carry or otherwise move everyday objects; and
(b) at the time that the disabled person whom it is assisting hires a private hire vehicle, is wearing a yellow jacket inscribed with the name of a specified charity.
"Specified charity" means any charity specified by the Secretary of State by order made by statutory instrument."
(3) In section 38(1) of the 1995 Act, for "section 36 or 37" there is substituted "section 36, 37 or 37A."
(4) Section 49 of the 1995 Act is amended as follows—
(a) In subsection (1)(a) at end there is inserted "or 37A".
(b) In subsection (1)(b) at end there is inserted "or 37A (8)(b)".
(5) Section 68 of the 1995 Act (interpretation) is amended as follows—
(a) In the definition of "licensing authority", at end there is inserted, "(c) for the purposes of section 37A, the authority responsible for licensing private hire vehicles in any area of England and Wales."
(b) After the definition of "prescribed" there is inserted—
""private hire vehicle" means a vehicle constructed or adapted to seat fewer than nine passengers which is made available with a driver to the public for hire for the purpose of carrying passengers, other than a licensed taxi or a public service vehicle;"."
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