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Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I agree that this is an important and extremely welcome initiative, and I am sure that we all wish our friends in the Arab League well in their discussions in Beirut today. On 18th March, the Prime Minister issued a statement welcoming United Nations Security Council Resolution 1397 and the initiative by Crown Prince Abdullah. I draw to the noble Lord's attention the statement only yesterday by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary saying how much he hoped that Arab leaders would endorse the Crown Prince's initiative. Very similar statements have been made by the European Union and the United Nations and indeed by President Bush. I think that this is a time to concentrate on what is positive in the possibility of moving forward.
Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, may I first congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, on an extraordinarily timely and perceptive Question? Is the Minister aware that the President of Syria, Mr Bashar al-Assad, announced at the Arab summit that he is calling on Arab states—particularly Jordan and Egypt—to break their ties with Israel? The issue of whether the Saudi peace initiative has the support of other governments has therefore become crucially important in paving the way to a possible peace in the Middle East. Have Her Majesty's Government made
clear to friendly Arab powers how very seriously we take the Saudi initiative and our own strong support for that way forward?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, inevitably, as we are discussing this Question at the very time that the matter is under discussion in Beirut, I suspect that there will be breaking news throughout the day, with leaders at the Arab summit making comments. It is obviously the case that there are some who may wish to take issue with some parts of what has been proposed by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. However, I think that, generally, the welcome which has been given in very positive terms both by my right honourable friends in another place and by others in the United Nations and in the European Union speak for themselves. I emphasise that those statements have been made very openly by my right honourable friends and that we are actively urging those at the summit to take forward Crown Prince Abdullah's suggestions.
Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, while my noble friend is absolutely right that, as far as peace is concerned, a real olive branch should be offered at this time, is it not a fact that the leaders of Jordan and Egypt will not attend the summit? Does she also agree that there is a great deal to be discussed? It is not a matter of a simple yes or no. Real negotiations have to be undertaken. Does she agree with that?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, it is a matter of fact that the King of Jordan and the President of Egypt have not attended the summit although I am bound to say there has been a great deal of speculation in the press on the reasons for that. Until we hear directly the reasons behind those decisions, it is difficult to judge the position exactly. However, I point out that I believe that both have sent representatives. This is, of course, an enormously complicated and difficult subject. The Crown Prince's proposals touch on a number of difficult and sensitive issues, as I am sure all your Lordships are aware. Detail will be a matter for discussion. I also remind your Lordships of the importance of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1397 and the importance of the fact that Israel called the resolution balanced and the Palestinians welcomed it as a step forward to realisation of their aspirations. It is important to take the two together.
Baroness Miller of Hendon: My Lords, does the Minister agree that clips from Palestinian newsreels, seen, incidentally, by noble Lords on all sides of the House as they are prepared by Palestinian Media Watch, which show imams, religious leaders and teachers telling young people of the glory of committing suicide in the name of Allah—I am certain that Allah would not require that—are making the conditions for a peaceful settlement much more difficult to attain? If President Arafat really believes what he says in English, he should say that in his own language to the people to stop these incidents so that the Palestinians can have a state side by side with Israel
where everyone could live in peace, which I believe is the wish of the Muslims, the Jews and all kindly and good thinking people.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that suicide bombing and the misplaced fervour of those involved constitute a dreadful terrorist practice. I do not know whether the noble Baroness saw news footage last night of a young mother who hoped that her four year-old son would grow up to become a suicide bomber. That was a truly chilling piece of evidence. Of course, there should be a clear statement from all people of good will that suicide bombing is unacceptable. However, it also leads us to a recognition of the sheer despair that is felt by such a mother and by young people who engage in such terrible and unacceptable practices.
The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn): My Lords, I think that we must move on now.
Foreign Languages
2.53 p.m.
Lord Watson of Richmond asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether they will drop their proposal to end compulsory foreign language learning after age 14 given the decline in foreign language learning in schools and universities which such a step would accelerate.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, this is a proposal in the Green Paper, 14-19: extending opportunities, raising standards, which is open to consultation until 31st May. Views expressed during consultation will help to inform our decision.
Our proposals balance the need for greater choice for pupils and the importance of foreign languages by proposing a statutory entitlement to them at key stage 4. Our document, Language Learning, includes our ambition that primary school children be entitled to study languages by 2012.
Lord Watson of Richmond: My Lords, I am grateful for that Answer but I remain perplexed, particularly on the issue of consultation. I should like the noble Lord to answer the following question. A year ago the Government set up the National Steering Group for Languages, chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton. It has consistently warned of a crisis in foreign language learning in this country with a 30 per cent drop in students studying French at A-level and a drop of over 15 per cent in students studying German at A-level. Why, having set up the steering group under their own chairmanship, did the Government give it only 12 hours' notice of the proposal to curtail
compulsory language learning? Was it because they knew only too well what the view of the steering group would be?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Lord will recognise that we take seriously the representations of the steering group and are, indeed, concerned about the provision of modern languages teaching in our schools today. The noble Lord will also recognise that the proposals that we are putting forward enhance foreign languages provision for the future. However, this issue cannot be switched on and off easily if we are to provide opportunities for children to start foreign language study at the earliest possible age which must be the base. It takes time for us to provide the teachers who are required in primary schools. The noble Lord will recognise that the Government have put forward a whole series of proposals to encourage people to take up foreign languages teaching following their university careers.
Baroness Carnegy of Lour: My Lords, does the Minister accept that very many children get excited about learning a foreign language when they go abroad not with their families but on a school trip or one sponsored by a voluntary organisation when they go into shops and have to speak the language of the country they are visiting? That is when they get interested. If this proposal is implemented, they may have learnt the relevant language from an early age but they will switch off at 14 and never have that experience because they will not go on those trips. It seems utterly ridiculous.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Baroness will recognise that the opportunities for young people to go abroad are much more extensive now than at any time in the past. Therefore, the opportunity to stimulate an interest in learning foreign languages can arise from a very early age. That is why we are concentrating one of our strategies upon primary school education. We want to respond to the stimulus that can arise at any age. Our lifelong learning proposals ensure that people have the opportunity to take up foreign language learning in adult life in relation to their work. We accept the point the noble Baroness makes that the stimulus may arise at different stages in students' careers. Our proposals encourage the development of any such stimulus at any appropriate point.
Lord Harrison: My Lords, first, does my noble friend recognise that there is a fear that these proposals might undermine the viability of some university foreign language courses in our country? Secondly, does he recognise that these proposals might also have a deleterious effect on viability and student mobility within the European Union for British students, especially those on EU-funded courses?
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