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Baroness Byford: My Lords, I apologise for interrupting as the noble Lord, Lord Fyfe, is about to
speak. As two speakers on this side of the House took longer than their allotted time, perhaps I may remind noble Lords that we are each limited to six minutes.3.52 p.m.
Lord Fyfe of Fairfield: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for the reminder. I shall be brief. I, too, thank the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, for initiating a debate on such an important subject. At this point, I declare an interest. Until recently I was chairman of the Co-operative Group, the CWS, which owns Farmcare. It is the largest active farmer in Britain, operating more than 90,000 acres.
Farmcare has substantial livestock interests, particularly in the dairy sector, milking more than 3,000 cows. But we also face some of the current difficulties in terms of falling farm-gate prices for milk. As part of a recent strategic review, Farmcare moved out of some livestock production, particularly pig production, when frankly we had neither the scale of operation nor the expertise to compete on an added-value basis with our global competitors.
Among other reasons, that is why I believe that the Curry commission's proposals that an English collaborative board be established is sensible. It is a very welcome step in the right direction and could realise the potential of the farming and food chain with co-operation between them. It could also have significant benefits for the livestock industry. I am hopeful that the Government will adopt that recommendation as part of their agricultural strategy. Indeed, it has received the support of my noble friend the Minister.
In many other parts of the world—other EU states, the United States of America and New Zealand—co-operation and collaboration have long provided a proven business model which can lead to prosperity for agricultural producers. In Scotland, for example, formal structures to promote and develop success in farmer co-operation already exist with the Scottish Agricultural Organisation Society taking the lead. The Western Isles Livestock Initiative was launched a couple of years ago to help crofters in Lewis, Harris, Uist and Skye to bring their lambs up to marketable weight and condition by placing them on east coast feeding farms. In Wales there has been the launch of the Red Meat company, which brings together Welsh livestock farmers in marketing their meat, particularly lamb.
Perhaps I may refer again to Farmcare. We have—I should say "they have" but I cannot help referring to Farmcare as still being part of my organisation; my heart is still there—put our money where our mouth is. Two experts have been recruited to spearhead new-style farm co-operatives in Cumbria, where livestock farmers face particular problems in rebuilding their markets following the devastation of foot and mouth disease.
I believe that farmers should work together on a collaborative and co-operative basis. Indeed, my noble friend Lord Haskins has already referred to that. I do
not believe that the solution to the industry's long-term problems lies in parading down Whitehall begging the Government for relief. I believe that farmers are self-willed and self-reliant enough to make a success of their own industry by working hard together in collaborative and co-operative terms. There are sound, sensible and logical reasons for that. It means a basis for mutual benefit by sharing knowledge and equipment, benchmarking, setting up joint ventures and funding and developing new added-value markets.Four minutes have elapsed. I am compensating for the over-run of some noble Lords. I believe that co-operation and collaboration are the future for the farming industry in the UK. They are also in the national interest.
3.57 p.m.
Lord Beaumont of Whitley: My Lords, much of what is wrong with the livestock industry is what is wrong with farming as a whole, as many speakers have already pointed out. Therefore, I must start by clearing the ground and saying briefly what the Green Party would do about farming as a whole.
We believe that the most basic problem lies in the free trade set-up and the international agreements to enforce it. We believe that every nation is entitled to food security and that, therefore, agriculture should be taken out of GATT. Thus, we look forward to an end to monoculture and the existence of a populated countryside filled with small mixed farms.
We do not believe that that is pie in the sky, and a start might be made by our Treasury making a U-turn in actively encouraging the European grants for our farmers instead of, as at present, discouraging them in order that they should not have to match them. At present, the result of their attitude, as Richard North has tirelessly pointed out, is that our farmers are up to 40 per cent worse off than their opposite numbers on the mainland—a position by no means wholly due to the strength of the pound.
I now turn to the more specific livestock side of farming. Here one of the most difficult problems is that of humane farming. I believe that there has been a shortage of input into this debate about the welfare of the livestock about which we are talking and to which we owe a debt of moral duty. When I entered the Chamber, I saw four Bishops on the Bench opposite and I had great hopes that they would contribute to the debate. Alas, that is not to be, although one is still present and will no doubt carry back the message.
One of the most difficult problems is that of humane and economic farming. Your Lordships will know that I view with abhorrence all forms of factory farming. I have introduced into your Lordships' House Bills for the prevention of cruelty to broiler hens and pigs. At present, there is before your Lordships a Bill concerning the welfare of ducks.
I pay tribute to the tireless work of Peter Stevenson and Compassion in World Farming in not only campaigning for the welfare of animals, but also in setting up a dialogue with farmers who, for the most part, have consciences and really care.
Among civilised people, it must be possible to feed a nation in such a way that we also treat our animals humanely. If the economic system prevents that, the economic system must be changed. As noble Lords have said, this is a time, in the aftermath of the foot and mouth outbreak, to start on some of the obvious steps that will allow for more civilised farming. One of the easiest ways is to refrain from resuming the export of live animals for slaughter. Whatever regulations are, in theory, in force, in practice it allows for an enormous amount of animal suffering.
Another method is the increase in labelling requirements, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, to whom we are grateful for instigating the debate. That would allow customers an informed choice, which I believe will increasingly be an informed moral choice. Another is the establishment of a channel for the voice of farmers other than the National Farmers Union, which is the voice of the agricultural industry—something else altogether. I have high hopes that that may soon emerge.
This debate is to call attention to the state of the livestock industry and I hope that I have called attention to the state of the livestock. I believe that this has been a necessary contribution and I hope that it will inform the thinking of the Government in the future.
4.1 p.m.
Lord Monro of Langholm: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, for introducing the debate and for putting the case for farming so starkly. According to Farming and Food—the Curry report—farming is on a path that is not sustainable; the CAP is unacceptable; farming is still in crisis; farm incomes are on the floor; and output is falling. That is a pretty dreadful state for any industry. The Government give the impression that they are not particularly interested in farming.
This week I received on my desk from the Secretary of State a document entitled Essentials for Life. It is full of visions and aspirations. At present, "vision" appears to be the buzz word of the Government. What does it mean in practice? When and what will happen to the CAP? Under the present CAP farmers will receive more than under any other system. That is why Eastern Europe is so keen to join the European Union at the present time. When will there be discussions on changes to the CAP? Can the industry be more involved before Europe comes up with more damaging directives?
The air is full of political advice, but not advice on how to produce quality food at a moderately profitable price. Farmers deserve a fair return on capital invested and on farming, a subject about which they have knowledge. They should not be expected to diversify into all kinds of odds and ends for which they are not trained.
Both the Government and the various agencies appear to have gone daft on modulation. Already it is reducing subsidy payments and it is accelerating. Modulation means less production subsidies—the first pillar—and more for rural development—the second pillar. Farming will lose out, which is serious, particularly for the less favoured areas. In passing, I ask why I have not received my LFA payment by mid-April when it should have been paid in mid-March?
I demonstrate the point with the countryside stewardship scheme and I lean heavily on the comments made by Jim Walker, the excellent president of the National Farmers Union of Scotland. In Scotland there are 380 farms in the scheme; 266 farms in environmentally sensitive area schemes and 125 receiving organic aid. That is 771 farms receiving rural aid out of 30,000 farms. That shows that the vast majority of farms receive nothing whatever for any effort made to support the environment.
As an alternative to going down the route of modulation, which drives most farmers mad, particularly the calculations on the number of livestock units that they have, the Government could enter a new scheme of a national envelope, as allowed by the European Union under the farm budget. Incentives can be given, but that can be argued only by British Ministers in Brussels. Can the Minister tell the House whether we are to do that? I believe it has to be done this month if at all.
The National Farmers Union of Scotland, like other unions, is against modulation as a blunt instrument to fund the second pillar on rural issues. If it has to be imposed it must be universal across the European Union and not just with this country carrying most of the burden as usual.
As well as beef, milk is also in crisis. Another drop of 3 pence per litre will be made in the near future. The competition policy will be seen to have failed farmers. The situation is serious indeed. The Government must consider the exchange rate which is a major problem in milk and they must activate the agri-money option, which they can if they wish to. Again, that must be done in April.
Like others in my part of the world, I lost my sheep flock because of foot and mouth. I have two questions for the Minister. Unlike this Government, the European Union set up an inquiry and has been taking evidence. Was the Minister correct to say the other day to that inquiry that the Government had full legal rights to cull on the "3K" scheme—the contiguous scheme—livestock that was free of foot and mouth?
I also notice that some authorities have been criticising the Army for taking so long to take over logistical control. Can the Minister confirm that the Army was ready and waiting for three weeks before the Government would give authority? The noble Lord, Lord Geraint, and the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, have rightly raised the issue of imports, which is a burning issue with farmers. They are very concerned indeed. Do we have sufficient meat inspectors? When will the Government do something about airports? I travel to and from America and on coming into this
country no one appears to care two hoots from where one has travelled. What, in the near future, will the Government do about that?I commend the Meat and Livestock Commission which appears to take positive steps to try to help farmers with their action plan. I hope that the Government will give all the support that they can. There is much to do and the Government have to make early decisions if farmers are to get out of the dreadful hole that the Government have dug for them.
4.8 p.m.
Lord Williamson of Horton: My Lords, I also want to thank the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, for giving us the opportunity to take our minds off the Budget and to debate the state and future of our livestock industry. Today the livestock industry may be a small part of our GDP, but it is an important factor as the provider of food for our population, as the user of much of our land, as the shaper of much of our environment and as a source of income, either directly or indirectly not only for farmers but also for many other businesses and people in the United Kingdom.
I declare an interest as a non-executive director of Whitbread, a company with a large number of restaurants and hotels and as a member of the Wessex regional committee of the National Trust, which is a substantial landowner.
I want to indicate some reasons why, if we look after our own interests, we should not be pessimistic. One should understand that, because of low prices and the disastrous effects of animal disease, the livestock industry today is in a depressed state, with the value of the production of pigs, cattle and sheep down in 2001. Part of that production may have been lost permanently, but part of it may represent the necessary restocking. Poultry production, as befits a nation whose national dish is chicken tikka masala, is holding up pretty well, but we are losing some share of a growing market. We would not choose to start from here, but this debate gives us a chance to look forward and I do not see all gloom.
It is many years since the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, and I negotiated deficiency payments. It was not an idyllic age then. The same problems arose in relation to balancing public expenditure with a sound agricultural industry. I do not want to look backwards but to concentrate only on where we are now and how to stabilise and improve the prospects for the industry and hence for the supply of food in the shops.
I shall mention three points but develop only two. First, I draw attention to the natural advantages in the UK for livestock and animal products. I believe that in the recent climate of crisis we may be forgetting some of those advantages. We shall remain competitive at the production level if we do not shoot ourselves in the foot by importing animal disease, by over-regulation, by accepting disadvantages in the setting of support prices because we are outside the euro-zone and by other distortions resulting from agricultural policy. It is the duty of government to see that we do not shoot ourselves in the foot.
Secondly, I want to draw together, as effectively as possible, the various strands of future agriculture policy which may result from the continuing reform of the policy in the European Union and from the good analysis set out in the report of Sir Donald Curry's commission—Farming and Food—which I view very positively.
Thirdly, it is obvious that we cannot recover a good position in the livestock industry unless in the future we do better on animal disease than we have in the recent past.
I turn first to our advantages. I do not want to over-stress the point, but I believe that we have quite considerable advantages in our farm structure for integrated meat and beef production. We have developed an efficient system for lamb production. Those advantages remain, even though perhaps at the present time we are 80 per cent or less self-sufficient for lamb because of foot and mouth disruption.
Those of your Lordships who travel on the Underground—that is all of you I imagine—will have seen a poem which reads:
- "I am the grass; let me work".
Turning to the future, we shall not necessarily be competitive at the final level, even if we are competitive at the production level, unless we look at marketing. The Curry commission suggests that the marketing chain for red meat is too long and should be examined. I hope that the Government will look favourably at that recommendation.
Secondly, I turn to the main issue, which is the development of agricultural policy in the European Union with the much greater emphasis which we want to put on agriculture as the manager of a living and attractive countryside. The Countryside Stewardship Scheme is very good, but I agree with the Curry commission that as we aim to switch resources to environmental objectives, we should opt for a new, broad and shallow stewardship tier, open to as many farms in the United Kingdom as possible, with a simple whole farm plan. I ask the Minister whether the Government are favourable to that approach. I argue for it because I think that the management of environmental change is important for us all. We exaggerate sometimes the environmental damage. The British landscape looks probably better now than it ever did in my 67 years. But we need to manage environmental change. I am in favour of a wide scheme of stewardship.
Another reason why I should like a wide and shallow stewardship scheme is that I think that it would tie in with the continuation of a safety net for livestock farmers, to which I attach very considerable importance, if prices collapsed to very low levels. We are committed by the Treaty of Rome to,
- "ensure a fair standard of living for the agricultural community".
We can do many of the things that we seek to do. We need to look to our marketing. We need to develop a wider policy for a wider stewardship grant, and back it with a genuine safety net if prices collapse.
4.15 p.m.
The Earl of Caithness: My Lords, I too thank my noble friend Lord Plumb for instituting this debate.
The noble Lord, Lord Haskins, said that the farming industry should not overplay its hand with the Treasury. I do not know a single farmer in this country who would not wish to have a government that supports the farming industry like other governments of other European countries have supported their farming industry.
I declare my interest as a trustee of the Queen Elizabeth Castle of Mey Trust. We have two pedigree herds. We have a pedigree herd of Aberdeen Angus cattle and a pedigree flock of North Country Cheviot sheep. I want to speak entirely about the pedigree sector which has long been neglected. The pedigree livestock sector, as your Lordships will be aware, is the seed stock for the entire livestock industry of the United Kingdom. It is a high-risk business. It is much higher risk than normal farming. Some years are good; most years are awful. Unless that sector is preserved and maintained we will be subject to the vagaries of questionable and variable meat coming in from other countries where its origin is uncertain and the welfare standards, to which the beasts have been subject, is also uncertain.
Shows are the lifeblood of the pedigree sector. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for his press release of 11th April and the resumption of livestock at agricultural shows. Of course that comes with a downside; it comes with increased bureaucracy. There are 28 pages of guidance notes. Attached to the 28 pages are seven sets of appendices that people have to plough through. So we win by getting our shows back; we lose by a great deal more bureaucracy.
I turn to the important aspect of genetics in pedigree breeding. The export of genetics has been a significant revenue-earner for this country. The trade is a two-way process. Many breeds have relied heavily on the importation of new genetic lines from overseas.
In October the EU intervened. It imposed a ban on the importation of embryos and live cattle from a list of countries, including our most important supplier—North America. That has severely disadvantaged many of our traditional beef breeds. Aberdeen Angus is one of the breeds affected. If one breeds Charolais, Simmental, Limousin or other non-indigenous breeds of cattle one has a much wider genetic pool than the traditional homebred breeds of Aberdeen-Angus, Hereford, Shorthorn and Galloway.
Cattle from the Americas have been imported into this country for many years. There is no evidence of any vertical transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in any of their offspring, if indeed their parents or grandparents were ever exposed to mammalian derivative protein sources. The continuation of this ban is morally and scientifically unjustified and should be revoked with immediate effect. I hope that the Minister will give me some reassurance that he is taking action on that front.
Turning to the sheep flock, one of the problems that we face in common with others is the genotype grading under the National Scrapie Plan. In simple terms, there are five categories under that plan. Category 1 is the best and category 5 is the worst. The category that affects most hill breeds—not only hill breeds in Scotland such as the North Country Cheviot, but hill breeds and rare breeds in this country such as Herdwick sheep—is category 3. If one's ram or tup is tested in category 3, one can continue to sell that animal until 31st December 2004 and to breed from it until 31st December 2007. However, that poses a great many problems, because many flocks fall into that category. It is the very timescale that is deterring owners of flocks from joining the National Scrapie Plan. There is also a significant loss for the breeder. On one day his tup may be worth £2,000, say, but on the next, because of the draconian dateline, it is worth nothing. Northern flocks face many problems as a result, which are especially serious for those in Shetland.
For pedigree breeders, there is another knock-on effect. From now on, people who want to purchase pedigree stock will look not for the best sheep for their flock or for the bloodline, but for sheep that are category 1 or 2 under the scrapie plan. We may produce the wrong sheep for the future. Will the Minister reconsider the dates and set back both the 2004 and 2007 dates by three years?
4.21 p.m.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, I suppose that I, too, must thank the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, although he must be a little tired of all the congratulations and would prefer action.
The figures that I—and most noble Lords—received from the National Farmers Union are most significant. The product of the livestock industry—I am not sure if this figure is for England and Wales alone—is down by about £600 million since 2001. The situation is serious and the Government must do something about it. I accept what the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, said: it is up to farmers to do a great deal. But farming is an industry in such a state and so subject to variation in world trade that it needs some government regulation.
When we consider that foot and mouth disease cost the industry £9 billion—again, according to the NFU—we realise that we need proper control, as other noble Lords have said, of the import of meat from countries in which foot and mouth is an indigenous disease. That must mean one simple thing: the
Government must employ many more people at ports to check not only where meat comes from but that proper regulations concerning the removal of certain parts from the carcass have been enforced. That is an important part of what the Government must do.Regulations must be enforced across the European Union. They must be regularised, because we all have experience of the fact that different conditions are insisted on here as regards, for example, pig farming, than elsewhere.
Fish meal is still banned, I understand, for use by ruminants, but fish meal fed to ewes and lambs has a most beneficial effect and produces good lambs. I cannot understand what harm fish meal can do if it comes from countries that have supplied it to us for many years.
Those are things that the Government can do. Another is to help co-operation. I look back on the happy days of the Milk Marketing Board and greatly regret that it has departed. The Government controlled that body and did not allow it to take advantage of its position, but it ensured a reasonable price for farmers, whereas now Milk Marque, which was an endeavour by the industry to organise marketing, is split into four. That is a difficult situation when the buyers, the supermarket chains, seem to co-operate happily in trying to keep down the price.
The Government must take an interest in all of those matters, but I entirely agree with the noble Lords, Lord Haskins and Lord Fyfe, that eventually the remedy must come from farmers themselves. A tremendous amount is being done in all kinds of fields. No one can obtain a return on growing grain at present prices, although I suppose that it is an advantage to a livestock farmer to have cheap grain. To take advantage of that needs co-operation, help from the Government and advice.
I have always taken the view that supermarkets market beef badly. Their whole philosophy is that everything should go out of the door as quickly as possible, whereas we all know that good beef needs to be hung. It costs a certain amount to hold it during that time, but it makes a big difference. In that respect, many breeders, such as the Aberdeen Angus breeders, are doing much to promote at good prices the excellent beef that we produce in this country.
Farmers can help themselves—they are, in all kinds of ways—but they need a regular and fair atmosphere in which to operate. I shall finish by criticising the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, a little. He made a good speech, but spoilt it at the end by saying that farmers should stand on their feet, like the rest of us. I constantly hear cries from every industry for government help, so farmers are not as bad as all that.
4.27 p.m.
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen: My Lords, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Plumb, is not too bored with receiving thanks, because I, too, want to thank him for initiating this debate, which is of great importance to our farming community and, indeed, our nation.
Many speakers here today are highly knowledgeable on the subject, and I do not pretend to be up to their standard. But I want to say a few words because of my great interest and belief in our rural areas and the people who live there. Many lessons were learnt from the outbreak of foot and mouth disease, which must teach us all, but especially the Government, how to plan for the future—as they are doing.
When I saw that this debate was on our agenda, I guessed that there might be a fair bit of criticism of the Government, and I have not been disappointed. However, being optimistic, I want to bring a glimmer of light to our debate. I shall give a few examples of what the Government are doing for the livestock industry, and shall then turn to something that has not yet been mentioned: the Meat and Livestock Commission.
Agreement has been reached at EU level on a package of measures to assist member states' sheep industry by helping to address environmental problems, including overgrazing, and by improving production and marketing of sheep meat. For a long time, the Government have been pledged to more efficient administration of the Common Agricultural Policy. With the establishment of the Rural Payments Agency, for the first time everything related to that issue is under one administration.
Protecting public health from diseases transmitted by livestock and the prevention and control of animal disease must be a key part of the Government's strategy, and it is. The Government believe that an integrated animal health regime will be vital. That will depend on involving shareholders, stakeholders, including the livestock industry, veterinary practitioners, government—especially DEFRA and the Department of Health—and the EU. Perhaps I may pause here and ask my noble friend the Minister whether he can tell us at the end of the debate the current position as regards the Animal Health Bill.
The lessons of foot and mouth show the need for an updating of the existing operational contingency plans, and this is being effected. The operational response regime, developed during the recent outbreak of foot and mouth, is being further developed. It will cover national and local disease control centres, including their staffing and resources, the provision of disposal facilities, and the updating of current veterinary operating procedures. All the latter were obviously lacking in some respects during our recent foot and mouth epidemic.
I turn to the work of the Meat and Livestock Commission, which plays an important part in the livestock industry. As a butcher's daughter, I have a natural inclination towards eating good, red meat. I believe that nothing is better than British good, red meat. Obviously, with the foot and mouth epidemic, the MLC recognised the need to sustain the willingness to eat meat in this country. By and large, the evidence shows that it has been generally sustained. However,
as has already been mentioned, there is currently less red meat produced in Great Britain, and consumer requirements are becoming more diverse.The Meat and Livestock Commission sees its main challenges to be: to ensure that British products are eaten rather than imports, as has already been stressed; to ensure that the products are nutritious, quick and easy to prepare; and to help the British livestock industry in its efforts in the area. On 7th March, the Industry Forum, which includes the MLC, DEFRA, the Institute of Grocery Distribution and the NFU, held a conference. The results of that conference echoed those of the Curry commission on the future of food and farming, and highlighted the need to improve the industry's competitiveness, profitability, and quality of products.
Research carried out by the Meat and Livestock Commission identified a number of key trends in meat consumption. Individuals are moving away from set, traditional meals: they are eating what they want, when they want. Diets have changed and people are re-assessing what they eat. The time that most consumers are prepared to spend shopping, cooking and eating is going down in their list of priorities—hence the need for quick and easy preparation. However, although traditional cooking skills are in decline, cooking for pleasure has become a leisure pastime as people experiment with new tastes and flavours.
All such changes have vital implications for the livestock industry. The production of meat and its presentation has to respond to demand. The MLC is working with those in the livestock industry on such issues as the size of packs of meat; ready-made or ready-to-prepare meals; assurances of health and safety of the meat produced; the market for luxury or premium meat products; selecting better breeding stock; and the development of products that fit into current diet and lifestyles.
There is no doubt that the future of the livestock industry depends on all stakeholders recognising and accepting the need to work together for its future. And the Government are the key players in that future.
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