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Lord Addington: My Lords, will the Minister give an assurance that there is active communication between social services departments and education authorities while a child is in school and once he or she leaves school? We tend to ignore the adult world when discussing children with special difficulties. That is particularly true of a group of children whose entire communication with the rest of society depends on properly trained people.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, the noble Lord is correct. We need to ensure that there is joined-up thinking of the best kind. The booklet produced by Sense, Breaking Out, has much to say about how services can link together to ensure that children, young people and adults are provided for. In my discussions with special schools, particularly those dealing with visual impairment, we have been
considering the transition for such young people into adult life. We have considered the role that the specialist services can play in working closely with them—Connexions advisers and the special schools—so that we can ensure that they make the transition as successfully as possible.
Lord Dormand of Easington: My Lords, under the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970 deaf-blind children can receive a special assessment and a package of assistance. According to a survey by Sense, the organisation that deals with deaf-blind persons, as my noble friend will know, many children and families do not receive that help. Will the Minister urge local authorities to undertake more work in that regard? If she does not have the figures with her, will she write to me saying how many local authorities provide such assistance?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord refers to Section 7 of the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970. That is carefully monitored by the Social Services Inspectorate and, therefore, is the responsibility of the Department of Health. There is statutory guidance of which local authorities are required to take note. They need good reason not to, and it would be subject to judicial review. The Social Services Inspectorate is now monitoring carefully. I shall pass that request for information to the Department of Health for reply.
Lord Rotherwick: My Lords, are there any shortages of specialist teachers who teach deaf and blind people? If so, what are the numbers?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, I do not have that precise information. I shall be happy to write to the noble Lord. We believe that there is adequate provision, but I shall notify him if that is incorrect.
Baroness Thomas of Walliswood: My Lords, do the remaining special schools act as centres of expertise for the rest of the educational needs of children and is it possible for a child with a disability, but particularly with the serious kind of disability mentioned in the Question, to start in one kind of school and move into another as he or she progresses?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an important point. We look to our specialist schools to become centres of excellence. Some of them are being co-located with mainstream schools, which will enable the students, even if they have complex disabilities or special needs, to interact with children in the mainstream sector to the benefit of the children in both settings. A number of pupils are registered in both settings and are able to move between them. Children with a particular disability—I use deafness as an example—may spend two days a week with a signer or an appropriate carer in a mainstream setting. That is to be welcomed and encouraged.
Taxation
2.50 p.m.
The Earl of Northesk asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What changes in the burden of taxation have occurred since 1997.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, estimates of net taxes and social security contributions as a percentage of GDP are available in Tables C10 and C23 of Budget 2002.
The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that brief Answer. But are the Government sanguine that one change that has occurred is that the poorest 10 per cent of people now pay a record rate of between 50 and 63 per cent of their income in tax?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the changes that have taken place over the past five years in the tax paid by the different deciles of the population in terms of income are very much to the credit of this Government. This is the first period of five years, or any comparable period, in which the net income of the poorest 20 per cent of the population has increased by as much as the net income of the top 20 per cent; in other words, in which the differentials have not increased.
Lord Newby: My Lords, the whole House will be fascinated by that answer. Will the Minister accept that the burden of taxation paid by the bottom 10 or 20 per cent of the population has risen, and risen more quickly than that of the top 10 or 20 per cent of the population, during the lifetime of this Government? Will he also accept that the principal reason for that is that the Government ruled out at the start the fairest form of taxation—if an increase in taxation had to be made—namely, income tax?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I am sorry that the Liberal Democrats are following in Conservative footsteps by being more interested in what they call "tax burdens" than in the real income which results from the income and taxes. I should have thought it was more appropriate for them to look at the real prosperity of this country and at the way in which the poor have been lifted out of poverty. The direct tax burden on a family on average earnings with two children this year will be 19.9 per cent lower than it was in 1997 or in any previous year since 1979.
Lord Saatchi: My Lords, perhaps I may refer the Minister to page 12 of the Red Book, where it says that a person on 50 per cent of median earnings—about £10,700 a year—will pay an additional £1.65 a week in tax. Why are the Government raising the tax paid by people who are below their own official poverty line?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Saatchi, produced a very interesting
pamphlet called something like, Why should the poor pay taxes?, which I read with very great interest. The noble Lord's solution of course would be to increase the tax threshold, the effects of which would be to make poor people a little better off but rich people very much better off. I doubt that that would recommend itself to the people of this country.
Lord Hooson: My Lords, does the Minister appreciate that the Liberal Democrat emphasis on direct taxation is that it is levied on the people who can afford to pay, whereas indirect taxation applies equally to the poor and the rich?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, that was not my criticism of the question of the noble Lord, Lord Newby. My concern was that he was interested in the concept of a tax burden—in other words, the percentage—rather than in the real earnings after tax of poorer people in this country. It is that on which this Government pride themselves.
Lord Roberts of Conwy: My Lords, does the Minister believe that the current and anticipated burden of taxation will encourage or discourage economic growth in this country, which is much needed by all classes?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the Government have made it clear in the projections in the Red Book that over the next few years there will indeed be an increase in what is called the "tax burden". But that will be in order to compensate for so many years of neglect of our public services. It is because of the neglect by the party opposite of our public services that we have to do this. The people of this country understand that and welcome it.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury: My Lords, does the Minister not know that on the night following each successive Budget, the City has been awash with champagne? Does he not accept that the fastest growing widening of income differentials in recorded time has meant an exacerbation of the problems of housing exclusion, of public sector recruitment and of social resentment? Does he deny that?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I do not move in the same City circles as the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. Nobody offered me any of the champagne. If he has any to spare, perhaps he will share it with the poorer people of this country who have benefited by this Government's policies. We need only to look at the results of the policies of this Government in terms of direct taxation since 1997. As a result of the personal tax and benefit measures introduced since that time, on average, by October 2003, households will be £740 a year better off; families with children will be £1,200 a year better off; pensioner households will be £1,150 a year better off. I think we can put up with a bit of champagne swilling for that.
Lord Elton: My Lords, perhaps I may redirect the Minister's attention to the poorest 20 per cent, about
whom the noble Lord, Lord Newby, addressed a question and to which the Minister replied by commenting on the condition of the average taxpayer. I remind him that my noble friend Lord Saatchi referred him to people on below average earnings, and he gave an answer based on my noble friend's pamphlet. Perhaps I may ask again whether people in the lowest 20 per cent of earnings are now paying more in tax than they were last year.
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