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Baroness Ashton of Upholland: We are now at the stage of "replying to the replying". In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, no, we do not see that as the way forward, for the reasons I gave earlier. That would be an extra layer rather than a provision that was helpful. As I said earlier, there are many ways in which schools can collaborate without going that far.
The noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, made a point about a trial period. We have not included such a provision—partly because we are working on the principle that schools will deliberate and probably set up ways of working together under other options as a method of moving towards federation. In other words, I imagine that schools will not leap into federation.
That said, we want to make sure that schools that do enter a federation can exit from it or that the federation can be dissolved. We have not yet considered any period of time during which schools must stay in a federation, although it may be a matter that the noble Baroness will want to press later. We are looking at what triggers would enable a federation to be dissolved. We shall examine that carefully. So if, for example, in a federation of three schools members of one school decided that the federation was not for them and felt that they would be better off under different arrangements, they could come to the federated governing body, having discussed the matter within the school, probably having consulted with the parents and having put forward the proposal that they should remove themselves from it. We shall set in train a mechanism that will enable that to be an informal process and a formal process.
If it would be helpful to the noble Baroness, I am happy to write to her setting out our thoughts on the matter. An exit strategy will be laid out so that schools are clear that they can leave a federation but providing some flexibility for them to be sure that it fits their circumstances.
We have said that up to five schools can federate. If more than five schools wanted to do so, it would be an exception that could be granted only by special consent of the Secretary of State. We do not want to go back to the time when there were 10 or 20 schools
under one federation; nor indeed do we want to make it impossible for governors to stay in touch with a school. But we recognise that there are already many governors who are governors of more than one school and who perform those functions very effectively. We expect schools to take that on board.I am sorry that I did not give the right reverend Prelate an Ascension Day gift. I rather hoped that I had. We have said that the diocesan authorities are very important. We expect governing bodies to consult them. We are simply saying that the decision must be made by the governing bodies. Local education authorities and diocesan authorities are important players, particularly with regard to the instrument of government, but the ultimate responsibility belongs to the governing body.
Baroness Blatch: Would the powers of a voluntary aided faith school, for example, be vested in the new, all-embracing governing body? On a linked point, sub-paragraph (iii) in my Amendment No. 114 suggests that the distinctive nature of each school should be represented on the governing body. In other words, if there are two or more faith or specialist schools—even up to five—coming together, the distinctive aspect of each of those schools should be represented on the governing body. I am not sure whether the Minister covered that.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: I accept that this is a complex procedure, particularly when dealing with schools of different faiths or different kinds of school. The situation is more straightforward if two or three community schools come together. I recognise that we have to look at the detail.
Admissions is an important issue. We imagine that a governing body would propose an admissions procedure that would enable there to be a majority on the panel, however it was done, that would represent the interests of the school for which that admissions procedure applied. That would help the new governing body determine its numbers and membership to ensure that that is built in on issues for which it is responsible as the employer of staff or for admissions procedures and appeals if need be.
All that would have to be demonstrated in the way in which the federated governing body came together to enable that to happen. We would be keen to ensure that that could happen so that there was a procedure for those schools to be represented on the governing body and to be enabled in doing so to fulfil their obligations as admissions authority, employer and so on.
Baroness Blatch: I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendment No. 114 not moved.]
Baroness Sharp of Guildford moved Amendment No. 115:
- Page 14, line 30, at end insert ", and
The noble Baroness said: The noble Lord, Lord Rix, who has added his name to the amendment, apologises for not being here this evening. The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that the individual schools within a federation have the same SEN and disability responsibilities as they would have if they were not federated.
In the discussions that we have had about the concept of federation, there are obviously some rather exciting possibilities for special needs provision. When we discussed what is now the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001, we talked about the possibility of special schools becoming a resource for a group of schools. That aspect of involvement in a federation is a positive way of looking at a federation. I certainly recognise that some advantages can be gained from that.
However, there are also some concerns about working in federated arrangements within the Bill. Above all, there is a danger of the issue falling between two stools. Everybody might think that someone else has responsibility for the issue.
The amendments respond to those concerns. There is already sometimes confusion between the responsibilities of schools and those of local education authorities on special educational needs. Parents who are concerned about their child's progress are often pointed in the direction of the local education authority for additional support through a statement, but when they approach the local education authority they are often told that the responsibility really lies back at the child's school. That confusion could be further exacerbated by the introduction of yet another level of responsibility—the federation. When schools choose to federate, it needs to be clear to whom the parents should turn when they are concerned about their child's progress or how their child's special educational needs are to be met.
Amendment No. 115 would ensure that a federated school and the individual schools within the federation had the same SEN and disability responsibilities as they had when they were not federated. In effect, responsibilities would be held locally by the individual schools and across all schools in the federation.
Amendment No. 118 provides a model of how the federation might apportion responsibilities in respect of special educational needs policy requirements. Some elements of the SEN policy could sensibly be maintained at the level of individual schools, but more strategic aspects of the policy might more appropriately be held at the level of the federation—for example, the way in which SEN provision is reviewed and developed might be across all the schools
Baroness Darcy de Knayth: In the absence of my noble friend Lord Rix, I should like to say a word in support of the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp. There are enough problems with children's special educational needs. It is very important that parents are clear about where to turn for advice. Parents are not clear at the moment about the division of responsibilities. It would be good to make the situation clearer. I hope that the Minister can give a positive response.
Lord Peston: I do not want to say anything negative about special educational needs, especially in this Chamber. As your Lordships know, I am firm believer in the idea of passing a general special needs amendment before we consider any Bill, covering any thoughts that anyone has on special educational needs so that we do not need to debate the subject further.
I am concerned about a deeper point. My interpretation of this part of the Bill is that federations will be what are called technically super-additive—that is, good will come out of them and the best of the constituents will become characteristic of the whole. The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, appears to assume the reverse—that this will be a recipe for the worst in every one of the members of the confederation becoming the characteristic. That is a deep divide.
I ask the noble Baroness to reflect on whether she may be mistaken. Maybe the point is that schools will get together and share all the good or best things that they do. Special educational needs provision is as good an example as I can think of. One of those schools will be much better at it than others and will set higher standards. That will become the characteristic of all the schools. That is one reason why we ought to support the proposals and see the positive side, not just with special educational needs but with almost anything else that I can think of.
The noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, said earlier that people who do not care for religion will take over. If she could tell me how to do that, I would be the first to put it into practice, but I cannot remotely think where her fears come from. If she knows how, posting the information on her website or e-mailing it to me would be all that I need and I would be in there like a flash.
My main point is simply that this is a chance for the best to take over. That is the point of it. We do not need amendments such as this one or anything else that we can think of in this area that needs protecting. We need to say that we want the idea to work.
(c) have collectively and individually the same responsibilities towards disabled pupils and pupils with special educational needs as any individual school."
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