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Baroness Ashton of Upholland: I agree with the noble Baroness that maintaining a healthy balance is very important for any governing body, including federated governing bodies. I reassure Members of the
Committee that we intend that the composition of the governing body of a federation will broadly conform to the stakeholder principles as recommended by the Way Forward group, which, under Clause 18, will be set out in regulations.I reassure Members of the Committee that where schools of the same category wish to federate, there will be regulations requiring them to conform exactly to the proportions of representation for each stakeholder group to be set out in regulations, as for single maintained school governing bodies. The only issue that may have a small bearing on the degree of conformity is the size of the governing body of the federation. In order for that not to become so large as to be unwieldy, combined schools will have fewer governors in each category than they would have had if they had remained under separate governing bodies. However, the representation within the whole governing body will be the same as for a single school.
Clauses 23 and 24 allow for schools of different categories to federate. We do not want such combinations to be prevented merely because schools belong to different categories. I hope that Members of the Committee agree that the goal of improving standards should not be constrained simply by the different categories.
Again, as for federations involving schools of the same category, we would expect the governing bodies of mixed category federations to conform broadly with the stakeholder principles outlined in Clause 18. We shall be regulating to ensure that parents and staff are represented in the same proportions as they will be in any single maintained school.
I recognise that it is important for all participating schools to be content with the level of stakeholder representation on the governing body of the federation. Therefore, we shall consult widely to develop the principles that allow for sufficient involvement for each school and each stakeholder group in the governing body of the federation.
As I said, we intend to regulate that schools putting forward for consultation plans to federate must include as part of their proposals the stakeholder composition that they intend to put in place for the governing body. That should make clear the proportion of representation for each stakeholder group that is required to be represented on the governing body. That means that all the parties which governing bodies will be required to consult—that is, parents, staff, the local education authority, the community, and partnership or foundation governors—will have the opportunity to comment on the proportions of stakeholder composition.
It is, of course, only at the end of that consultation process, after hearing the views of all the affected stakeholders, that each governing body will decide whether it wishes to federate. I hope that, in the light of those assurances, the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.
9.15 p.m.
Baroness Walmsley: I thank the Minister for her answer. However, can she clarify the situation of a school in special measures within a federated group?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: I am sorry. I did intend to answer that point. Such a school would be part of a federated governing body. The federated governing body would be responsible for that school as part of its work. Therefore, the local education authority would be working with that body as the governing body of the school. That may require the local education authority to consider additional governors, or it may mean that the budget of the school is controlled by the local education authority, and so on. But that is all possible within federation. We would need to ensure that intervention was possible, regardless of the nature of the governing body, in order to protect the education of those children.
Baroness Walmsley: I thank the Minister for that clarification. Can she assure me that, in deciding whether or not federation was desirable, the social composition of the governing body would also be taken into consideration? In some cases, the distances involved might be great, and it would be important that governors were not constrained in serving on a governing body because of problems of that nature.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: I return to the original point. It would be for the governing bodies of the schools involved to decide whether they wanted to proceed in that way. The people involved in such a decision are those whom we recognise as having good sense, and they will also consider the logistical issues. We would want them to do that, and it would be part of their job to do so. However, ultimately they must make the decision. They will consider all the issues, including the benefits that will arise for the children—that is, after all, what this is all about—and make their decision accordingly. I am sure that they will take those issues on board.
Baroness Walmsley: I thank the Minister for that further clarification. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
On Question, Whether Clause 23 shall stand part of the Bill?
Baroness Blatch: We can be fairly brief because we have had quite a long discussion on these amendments. However, I want to make one point, particularly in response to the last amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley.
We are at a disadvantage. The Minister is being careful and diligent in her replies to us and, I believe, extremely empathetic and sympathetic to many of the points that have been made during the course of the debate. However, ultimately, it is what goes into statute that will matter. Personal reassurances are very welcome and warming, but that is not what the words
on the page of the Bill say. Therefore, we shall be looking very carefully at the detail to ensure that some of the reassurances that have been given personally by the Minister appear somewhere in the legislation.That leads me to my next point concerning regulations. I have already asked how many sets of regulations there will be on the passing of the Bill. But I wonder whether we are likely to see a draft form of these particular regulations before the Bill proceeds very much further. We have no policy paper on federations. We have policy papers on almost everything else but not on federations. And there is an enormous amount of detail that we want to see. I do not wish to be negative but, as the only part of Parliament that carries out this work, our duty is to test some of the propositions that the Government put forward so that, when the legislation becomes law, it is as workable as possible.
The reassurances that we are given will be matched only by the detail that follows. Only after federation is in place will people consider some of the practical points that have come to light in the debate. For example, they will realise how time-consuming and costly it may be to cope with the logistics of travelling between schools. They will need to ensure that no single person is disadvantaged by becoming a governor because of the amount of travelling involved. Although a governing body may have thought through such matters and consider them to be acceptable, new governors will inherit the obligation to move between schools. That is a particular issue in rural areas. One can separate the urban from the rural areas in this case. There would have to be an evaluation and monitoring process to ensure that the arrangements are working and that each of the schools are being treated on a par with one another.
The dissemination of working papers, agenda materials and other materials between schools would be time consuming and at a cost. We hope that such matters are thought through. It would help enormously to have an assurance from the Minister that we shall see at least a draft form of regulations before the Bill progresses much further.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: From these Benches I thank the Minister for the degree to which she has clarified some of the ideas behind the concept of federation. Certainly, I have a much clearer understanding of the purpose of federation. I share the doubts expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, about the implementation of some of the detail. Clearly, it would be good to see draft regulations before Report.
We retain some reservations. The point which comes through to me most clearly is that it is probable that few schools would make use of these procedures to federate because there is not such advantage in it. As has been said, co-operation can come without federation. Having said that, I do not intend to oppose the Question whether Clause 23 stand part.
Clause 24 [Federations: supplementary provisions]:
[Amendment No. 118 not moved.]
Baroness Sharp of Guildford moved Amendment No. 119:
- After Clause 24, insert the following new clause—
The noble Baroness said: I tabled Amendment No. 119 as a probing amendment to gauge the Government's response. However, I have been thoroughly surprised by and pleased at the number of letters and e-mails that I have received congratulating me on tabling the amendment and supporting it wholeheartedly. That has led me to recognise that there is a latent demand for a national parents' council, which perhaps the Minister recognised and which I had not fully appreciated until I came to investigate the issue.
It appears that there is a real need for an organisation at national level to speak for parents. After all, we have a large number of teachers' unions. We have unions for head teachers, which the Government consult regularly on their educational proposals; but there is no equivalent stakeholder group for parents. As a former active member of the national executive of CASE, which was a self-chosen representative group, we could never claim to be representative of parents because we were not elected to speak for parents. Likewise the National Confederation of Parent Teacher Associations does invaluable work supporting PTAs but again is not an elected group; nor is the National Governors' Council, although that too represents many parent governors.
Therefore, it is sensible to move forward in this way. The School Standards and Framework Act introduced parent governor representatives at LEA level. They are elected by parent governors from schools. A national democratically-elected representative voice for parents could be provided by building on the existing right of parents to elect parent governors, and for those parent governors then to elect parent governor representatives at LEA level.
Government guidance for parent governor representatives at LEA level states:
A consultative body, regularly re-elected, could meet to consult with the Government as of right. Its function would be consultation. It would provide a means of consultation for the Government directly to parents in schools via parent governors. It could allow a voice for parents, elected only by parents, on to national bodies, such as the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority.
If we look at other countries, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in its 1997 report entitled Parents as Partners in Schooling compared the representation of parents at national level in different OECD countries. The report drew attention to the fact that Spain and Ireland, which most recently had reformed their educational systems, had chosen to give parents a voice at every level, including national level. Denmark, which has always involved parents, was attempting to deepen that involvement. In Canada and the United States a number of provinces and states had reformed their regulations to give parents a voice at state, local and school levels. Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland and Spain all have parents represented on key national policy-making committees and there are national representative parental organisations which are consulted by government. In Germany every Land has a state parent council, made up of elected parent representatives, which advises the Minister of Culture on educational issues, including drawing up curricula and authorising textbooks. For the most part, the OECD report said, parental representation is set down in the legislation of the countries concerned.
However, the report noted that in England, Wales and Japan parents are not represented as of right on any national policy-making body or advisory committee. Since the report there has been one change in that the Secretary of State has appointed members of the General Teaching Council to represent parents. If there is a case for having parents on the General Teaching council, there is also a case for having a national parents council.
Another organisation that has advocated a national parents council is none other than the Government's favourite think tank, the IPPR. Joe Hallgarten in his report entitled Parents Exist—OK? advocates a national parents council. In the report he says,
"NATIONAL PARENTS' COUNCILS
(1) The Secretary of State in England and the National Assembly for Wales shall make arrangements for the establishment in each country of a National Parents' Council, which shall consist of elected representatives of parent governors, one from each local education authority area.
(2) Regulations shall provide for—
(a) eligibility for election to the respective Councils;
(b) the procedures by which such elections will take place;
(c) the terms of office of members and officers;
(d) the procedures by which the chairman and vice chairman are to be elected;
(e) arrangements for meetings of the respective Councils;
(f) the reimbursement of members for travel and expenses;
(g) any other matters relating to the constitution, procedures and meetings of the Councils as are appropriate."
"'Parent governor representatives' do not just represent parent governors. They are elected to represent all parents whose children are in local maintained schools or in some other education provided by the local authority. Parents (and their children) have the biggest stake in how well schools perform and how well local authorities support them. It is therefore only right that parents should have a say in local authority decisions that affect parents".
If those arguments apply at local authority level, they apply at national level.
"The Government should seek to create National Parents' Council. As with the General Teaching Council, the body would be consulted about all initiatives ... A National Parents' Council could stimulate and support school-based participation. The formation of a National Parents' Council in Ireland in 1995 has sent ripples of increased parental participation throughout their school system".
I return to where we started. Involving parents and allowing them to speak with a clear voice is a risky business. Parents may want what the Government do not want to provide. And of course parents might be wrong. But, in a mature democracy, parents should be allowed to speak with a collective voice. I beg to move.
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