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Lord Davies of Oldham: The Government recognise the essential role of parents in education. Their involvement and support for their child's learning is critical. We all know that education is most effective when teachers and parents work together in close partnership to the benefit of the child.
We have some doubts about the concept of the national parents council, not least because—and I think that the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, would recognise this—of the extent to which the Government have taken steps to give parents a more effective voice. They have an effective say in their children's education as a result of the home-school agreements. We have increased the number of parent governors on school governing bodies. The new provisions for the constitution of governing bodies will provide consistently for one third of governor places to be for parents. We have created the parent governor representative in order to give parents a voice on local authority committees that deal with education matters.
Our view is that the role of parent governor representatives is to represent to the local education authority the views of all parents in the area on locally provided education. That meets many of the broad objectives of today's proposal. The PGRs act as an apolitical voice for parents in the local authority area. They also have a valuable role to play in feeding back to parents the local authority's discussions and decisions on education issues. We have been concerned to move from the local to the national. We established the national network for PGRs to enable them to keep in touch with each other and to share best practice. That network is proving a useful tool in helping parent governor representatives in their task and by providing a further channel of communication with parents.
Where we disagree with the amendment is on the question of whether a further national body would be helpful. I recognise that the noble Baroness has gone to considerable care to identify the composition of such a body. She outlined its functions in her speech, but the amendment does not spell them out. In any case, the broad objectives that appear to underpin the amendment are met by the extensive developments in parents' representation that the Government have effected in recent years. Of course, we are committed to the support mechanisms available to parent governor representatives to ensure that the parental voice continues to be heard as effectively as possible.
I hear what the noble Baroness says about international comparisons, but developments in recent years have struck out the concept that I recall reading about in a newspaper article only earlier this week, when Professor Wragg referred to those days when a
line was drawn in school playgrounds which parents were expected never to cross. We have moved a long way beyond that now.So we share the concern of the noble Baroness that parents should be encouraged to make as large a contribution to their own child's education as they can and representatives of parents to play their full part with local authorities and, through the network, across the nation. But we do not accept the concept of a national parents council.
9.30 p.m.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I thank the Minister for his reply, but my inclination is to say to him, "Get real!". Who makes decisions about education in this country? They are no longer made by local education authorities. Yes, we are trying to get them made by local education authorities. The Minister is quite right to say that there is no longer any line in schools with parents behind it. It is excellent that we now have real co-operation. The Minister is right: good schools are those where parents and teachers co-operate to educate their children.
But the line is drawn at the national level. There is no proper discussion or consultation with parents at the national level. We are asking for a proper, representative stakeholder group for parents. The Minister said how good it was to have that locally but, as I say, decisions are taken nationally. It is therefore appropriate that there should be consultation at national level. We shall probably return to the matter on Report, but I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 26 [Limits on power to provide community facilities etc.]:
Baroness Blatch moved Amendment No. 120:
- Page 16, line 27, leave out "to a significant extent"
The noble Baroness said: We now move to a separate subject. Clause 26 allows governing bodies to provide facilities or services to further any charitable purpose for the benefit of pupils, their families or local communities. They may incur expenditure, enter into agreements, co-operate, facilitate or co-ordinate the activities of any person and provide staff, goods, services and accommodation to any person. Any charging must be subject to Chapter 3 of Part 6 of the Education Act 1996. That is also subject to the school's instrument of government or Section 48 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.
According to Clause 26(2) all this is also subject to regulations. Clause 26(3) allows the governing bodies to exercise the powers conferred by Clause 25(1) only if anything they do does not to a significant extent interfere with the duty imposed on them by Clause 20(2) or by any other education Acts.
- "The governing body shall conduct the school with a view to promoting high standards of educational achievement at the school".
It seems extraordinary phraseology. It is in the Bill for a purpose. It is important that we know that purpose. I propose that Clause 26(3) reads as follows:
- "A governing body shall exercise the power conferred by section 25(1) only if and to the extent that they are satisfied that anything which they propose to do will not interfere with the performance of any duty imposed on them by section 20(2) or by any other provision of the Education Acts".
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: The inclusion of the wording "to a significant extent" ensures that insignificant incidental effects on a school's main educational role are not seen as obstacles that would prevent worthwhile services being established. For instance, it might be argued that adults using an ICT suite on school premises during school hours could potentially impact on teachers' and pupils' flexibility to use that suite. But the other side of that example is, of course, that it should have no significant effect in practice on children's learning; and evidence shows that this type of activity can have a positive impact on the achievement of those pupils. Adults learning in schools provide good role models for all pupils, developing positive attitudes towards teaching and learning. We expect all schools that develop family and community services to see a positive impact on the educational standards of their children.
Perhaps I may reassure the Committee that individuals will not be making these decisions on their own. In exercising their powers under Clause 25, school governors must have regard to guidance issued by the Secretary of State and to any advice given to them by the local education authority. That guidance will make it clear that where governors are considering providing community services, they must consult all interested parties.
In this context, the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, and I are in almost the same place. The words "to a significant extent" imply that there has to be a significance in the extent. In other words, to remove those words is to suggest that an insignificant extent could be taken forward. This may sound pedantic, but it relates to drafting.
I agree with the noble Baroness that the provision is not about allowing schools to interfere with the raising of educational standards in the education of children. The wording seeks to ensure that children's work is not interfered with to a significant extent. I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Blatch: I find the answer wholly unsatisfactory. The Minister is saying that a governing body will be able to exercise the power conferred on it if, to an insignificant extent, its primary duty, which is that it will conduct the school with a view to promoting high standards of educational achievement, can be compromised or interfered with—not to a significant extent, but if insignificant activities take place. That is unacceptable. Nothing, but nothing, whether significant or insignificant, should interfere with the primary duty. There is no way of measuring what is significant and what is not. In my book it is unacceptable for schools to be allowed to indulge in activities that interfere to any extent with the governing body's primary duty to promote high standards of educational achievement.
How does a teacher, a school or a governing body know what will be deemed significant or insignificant. There is no scientific measurement; it is in the eye of the beholder. I do not believe that the schools, the governing bodies or the teachers should be detracted in any way from their duty to promote high standards of educational achievement. I find the situation wholly unsatisfactory. I do not accept that answer, but the matter is too important for me to rely on the remnants of the membership of the Committee that surround me this evening. I shall return to the issue, hopefully with a great deal of support. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
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