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House of Lords Reform

3.8 p.m.

The Lord Chancellor (Lord Irvine of Lairg): With permission, my Lords, I should like to make a Statement on the Government's proposals for taking forward reform of the House of Lords.

The Government began the process of Lords reform with the removal of the great majority of the hereditary Peers, in 1999. We are committed to further reform of the House of Lords, to remove the remaining hereditary Peers and to provide Parliament with a modern, effective second Chamber.

We have listened carefully to the wide range of views expressed in the recent debates on Lords reform in both Houses of Parliament and to the responses to the White Paper. We have taken account of the report of the Public Administration Select Committee. We have also considered statements from all parties that this issue should be considered further by a Joint Committee of both Houses. I hope therefore that the way forward I am announcing today will be welcomed and supported on all sides of the House.

We have decided that, on this vital constitutional issue, which concerns not only the composition of the House of Lords but also the role of Parliament as a whole and the relations between the two Houses, it would be right to invite the two Houses to establish a Joint Committee, in the hope that we can forge the broadest possible parliamentary consensus on the way forward. We hope that the Houses will be able to proceed with the establishment of the Joint Committee as soon as possible. We have noted the recent joint statement of the two main opposition parties that such a Joint Committee would help reconcile differences and seek a principled consensus on the way forward. I therefore hope that we can look forward to their co-operation in setting up the Joint Committee as soon as possible and making a success of its work.

Reform of the second Chamber has implications for the future of Parliament as a whole, and in particular for the relations between the two Chambers. It is right that Parliament itself should record its views on the composition of the second Chamber. For this we believe that a Joint Committee alone is insufficient. We therefore intend to ask the Joint Committee, as the first phase of its work, to report on options for the composition and powers of the House of Lords once reform has been completed. This will define options for composition, to include a fully nominated and fully elected House, and intermediate options. Both Houses will then be asked to record their views on those options in free votes.

In the second phase of its work, on which the committee will report, it will define in greater detail the proposed composition, role and powers of the reformed second Chamber, taking account of the opinions expressed by the two Houses. It should also recommend the transitional strategy for transforming the existing House of Lords into its fully reformed state. This will be particularly important if the recommendation were to be for a significantly smaller

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House. The Government's intention would then be to bring forward legislation in the light of the report of the Joint Committee and the opinions of both Houses expressed in those free votes.

As both the Royal Commission chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Wakeham, and the Government's White Paper made clear, any proposals on the powers and composition of the House of Lords must flow from a clear understanding of its role and functions. The issues to be considered by the Joint Committee therefore will include: first, the role and authority intended for the second Chamber within the context of Parliament as a whole—there is, we believe, a consensus that its main role should continue to be as a revising, scrutinising and deliberative assembly with the power to delay but not to seek to veto legislation; secondly, the impact of that role and authority on the existing supremacy of the House of Commons and relations with the executive—there is, we believe, broad agreement that the Commons should retain its role as the pre-eminent Chamber and that the test for any government should continue to be whether it can command a majority in the House of Commons; thirdly, the composition and powers of the second Chamber best suited to give effect to the role and authority intended for that House. This consideration should include the implications of a House composed of more than one "class" of Member and also the experience and expertise which the House of Lords in its present form brings to its function as the revising Chamber.

It will also be necessary to consider the most appropriate and effective legal and constitutional means to give effect to any new parliamentary settlement, including any mechanisms required for resolving conflicts between the two Houses. In order to inform the Joint Committee's deliberations, the Government are today publishing the full results of the consultation on their White Paper. We received over 1,000 responses. The full analysis is now available in the Printed Paper Office and on the Lord Chancellor's Department website.

The Government have a major record of constitutional reform. Since 1997 we have created a Scottish Parliament and Assemblies for Wales and Northern Ireland. We have enacted the first House of Lords Act, the Human Rights Act and the Freedom of Information Act. We have given the Bank of England independence in the setting of interest rates. Last week the Deputy Prime Minister set out our plans to allow the creation of regional assemblies in those regions of England that vote for them. We have enhanced the role of the Select Committees, including my right honourable friend's announcement that he will be the first Prime Minister ever to appear before the Liaison Committee. In addition, we are modernising the working practices of both Chambers. Taken together, this is the most substantial programme of constitutional reform for over a century and will stand as one of this Government's historic achievements.

Today's announcement is another important step towards ensuring that reform of the House of Lords ranks alongside those achievements. We must not

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allow a repeat of past history in which reform has been delayed because those who wanted it could not agree and therefore left the field to those who opposed it.

Our objective is to secure a second Chamber that is broadly representative of the Britain of today, a Chamber which will complement the Commons by reinforcing Parliament's ability to conduct scrutiny and hold the executive to account and which will increase the respect of the public for Parliament. The way forward I have outlined puts responsibility in the hands of Parliament itself in free votes. I urge Members of all sides of the House to respond not as party politicians but as parliamentarians committed to a strong Parliament within a modern democracy.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

3.17 p.m.

Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, I begin by thanking the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor for the Statement he has made.

The word "historic" is a much overused cliché in this House but on this occasion I can say that it was an historic Statement as it concerns the future of Parliament as a whole and it shows that the Government accept that reform of Parliament does not belong to one party alone. The Statement trusts Parliament and parliamentarians with the responsibility of finding the best way forward to strengthen this House and Parliament itself for the benefit of the country as a whole. That is something we on this side have long argued for and which we now clearly welcome.

No doubt some may be tempted to say, "If only the Government had taken this course before" as, indeed, the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor wisely promised as long ago as 1997. But I think that we must now look to the future. It is not the time to dwell on the past or what was done in the past. Instead, I say to my noble friends that we should welcome the fact that today the Government have held out a constructive hand. On behalf of my party I assure the noble and learned Lord that we shall respond in the same constructive spirit to that gesture.

As the noble and learned Lord said, less than a fortnight ago the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Crosby, and I made a joint appeal to the Government to abandon a single party approach and establish a Joint Committee. The fact that the Government have now agreed to do what we asked is a statesmanlike and sensible step and I am grateful for that. It would, I believe, have been a disaster to plough on into bitter parliamentary warfare over the reform scheme that was put forward at the end of last year. It would not have served the Government's objectives; it would not have served Parliament and it would not have served the country or the voters' priorities.

In welcoming the Joint Committee, which I hope will be established soon, I make it clear that my party's basic position is unchanged. To us it seems obvious and urgent that the authority of this House—for all its successes since 1999—and the authority of the other place both need to be strengthened in the face of the

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executive. We have put forward proposals that we believe would strengthen both Houses and we still hope that progress will be made towards them.

However, the purpose of the Joint Committee is to build consensus and reconcile differences, so far as is possible, and to open the way to lasting reform; it is not to enable sensible aspirations for reform to be sidelined or smothered.

Will the noble and learned Lord confirm that the committee will be large enough to include shades of opinion within parties and across parties? In the context of this House, will he assure us that there will be places for Cross-Bench Peers on that committee?

We look forward to early discussions on the composition and remit of the committee. However, will the noble and learned Lord also confirm that the Government's proposals, which we bitterly opposed when they were announced, to reduce the powers of this House have been shelved—and, I trust, shelved permanently?

If the Joint Committee has authority, vision and independence, today could be a very good day for this House and Parliament. The threat of legislation that would have weakened this House and Parliament has been lifted. The Government have shown themselves ready to listen to Parliament—they would gain infinitely from that, if only they were ready to do it more. As a result, we now have a once-and-for-all opportunity to grasp something that eluded us in 1911, 1968 and 1999—a chance to set this House on a secure and lasting footing, as a full partner with another place in upholding the ancient liberties of the British people. All of us on all sides have a high and solemn duty to participate with a will in that work. On this side of the House, we will assuredly do so.

I end by thanking the noble and learned Lord for turning the Government away from the sterile conflict that we were threatened with in December last year. The Statement, if it means anything, could mark an historic moment at which the steady diminution of Parliament at last began to be reversed. Let us hope that it will; if it does not, a rare and remarkable opportunity will have been squandered to the lasting detriment of us all.

3.22 p.m.

Baroness Williams of Crosby: My Lords, I, too, thank the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor for his Statement. Moreover, I thank him and the Leader of the House of Commons for having piloted through the proposal in what we recognise were controversial and difficult times. We are very grateful for what we believe to be a very exciting and promising way forward.

We appreciate in particular the proposal for a Joint Committee. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, who has much to do with this matter, will not object if I mention the name of my predecessor, my noble friend Lord Rodgers of Quarry Bank, who persistently pressed in that direction as a way forward

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for reform of your Lordships' House. Many noble Lords will, on this occasion, wish to appreciate his major contribution.

We on these Benches particularly welcome the use in the Statement of the phrase,

"the role of Parliament as a whole".

We have never sought in any way to compete with the pre-eminence of another place. We recognise that the considerable loss of respect for Parliament since the Second World War must be reversed. One way to do so is to consider the role of Parliament—the role of the House of Commons and the ways in which this House can complement the work of the House of Commons in the most constructive way.

It is incumbent on all of us in this House—on every single Member, not simply those in a particular party—to seize the opportunity that has been granted to us and to approach it as constructively as we can. We believe that the people of this country are looking to both Houses of Parliament to rise to the occasion and to come forward with constructive proposals for reform in a way that will make Parliament once again central to the whole constitutional structure of this country.

I have two questions for the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor. The first concerns whether the composition and powers of the House and of another place will be taken side by side during the first stage, on strategy, and during the second stage, on tactics. There are innovative and exciting proposals concerning ways in which the powers of this House could be extended into areas that are not currently scrutinised by Parliament in any way. Will that be taken into account by the Joint Committee?

Secondly, will the Lord Chancellor bear in mind the need for at least a reasonable sense of the importance of moving ahead with this reform—if not urgency—when considering the size and balance of the proposed Joint Committee?

I do not wish to detain the House. In conclusion, the position of Parliament is the keystone of the constitutional arch in this country, and has been for centuries. We believe that it is time that that keystone was refurbished and brought up to date. We thank the Lord Chancellor and the Leader of the House of Commons for giving all of us the opportunity to create out of Parliament the institution that all of us would like it to be. For many parts of the world, it has become, over the years, a model of how democracy should be carried out.

3.26 p.m.

Lord Craig of Radley: My Lords—

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