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Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, the cost of installing and removing the track will be £8.5 million, which is substantially less than originally anticipated. It will take around 17 weeks, which is again substantially less than originally proposed. The earlier estimate was between 42 and 52 weeks. That would make it possible to stage major international athletics events at the new national stadium.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, on the assertion by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, about the £120 million paid by Sport England for a national stadium, will the Minister confirm that that was not for an Olympic stadium but for a national football and rugby stadium that was capable of accepting the World Athletics Championships, which is an entirely different proposition? If the Football Association can comply with the four conditions that the Government have laid down, many of us on these Benches do not support the Birmingham proposal but believe that Wembley is the right choice.
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, I can confirm my noble friend's comments on an Olympic stadium. It is for the British Olympic Association and the Mayor of London to decide whether they wish to bid for the Olympic Games. I understand that thought and consideration are being given to that by the BOA and the mayor. However, the mayor has indicated that he
wants an Olympic stadium to be built in the east of London, with facilities for a range of sports, including swimming, which would not be available at Wembley.
Lord Rotherwick: My Lords, bearing in mind that the Dome was good enough for the celebration of the millennium, why would it not be good enough for a national stadium? It is, after all, in the east of London.
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, the Dome is not capable of housing the necessary facilities for a national football stadium or athletics events.
Lord Elton: My Lords, did I understand the Minister to say that it will cost £8 million every time the stadium is converted for athletics and that it will take 17 weeks on each occasion? Will the stadium be usable during those 17 weeks and, if so, for what?
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, when national stadia of this sort are built and used for different purposes, it always takes a substantial length of time to convert them. While the conversion is taking place, it will not be possible, so far as I understand it—I shall write to the noble Lord—to use it for other events. That is exactly what happens in stadia around the world that are used for football and athletics.
Lord Clarke of Hampstead: My Lords, does the Minister agree that almost every football supporter who goes to the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff recognises what a wonderful structure it is? It would be good for this country if we simply replicated the Cardiff design, put it on the Wembley site and got on with it.
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, I believe that everyone involved in building the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff should be congratulated on the success of the project.
Charities: National Insurance Increase
2.50 p.m.
Lord Morris of Manchester asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether they have received any representations on the effects of the proposal to increase national insurance contributions for charities that assist the National Health Service in providing home care services for severely disabled and elderly people.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the Government have received a number of representations from such charitable organisations. Charities play a valuable role in providing home care funded by local authorities. We believe that that role will continue to develop in the light of the substantial increases in funding for personal social services from 2003-04.
Lord Morris of Manchester: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. Is he aware that, for charities like the admirable Enham Trust, providing, as they do, 24-hour care, supported accommodation and home care for chronically sick and severely disabled people, the rise in national insurance contributions will mean higher costs and cuts in staff and will lead to more so-called "bed-blocking" in NHS hospitals? Is that not hurtful to highly vulnerable people and plainly self-defeating?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for making me aware of the concerns of the Enham Trust. Of course, we are very sympathetic to those concerns, but I believe that their problems must be set in context. The increase in national insurance contributions is only 0.7 per cent of payroll nationally. Unfortunately, of the 200,000 or so staff who are involved in home care, 60 per cent work fewer than 30 hours a week. Therefore, I am sorry to say, many of them are likely to earn less than £89 per week, which is the primary threshold for national insurance contributions. Thus they will not pay any more.
Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, rather than doing as the noble Lord has just suggested and giving a credit to charities against their national insurance bill, would not charities far prefer to be relieved of the burden of VAT and would not the Government be far better off providing that relief?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I believed that the noble Lord was going to ask for special treatment in relation to national insurance contributions. I understood that to be the thrust of the Question; indeed, it was the thrust of the Question. As the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, knows very well, the issue of value added tax is governed by the annex to the sixth directive. We do not have the same control over these matters.
Baroness Barker: My Lords, I declare an interest as an employee of Age Concern. Given that all providers of home care—statutory, independent or private—are equally subject to provisions of employment and taxation law, does the Minister agree that the key factor is that contracts should be awarded by commissioning officers on a fully costed basis? Will the Department of Health be taking that issue into account?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I believe that this matter goes together with the whole issue of charging. I do not believe that one can separate the contracts from the charging regime. As the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, well knows, under the Care Standards Act guidance must be issued on home care charging. The consultation period has only just concluded and we shall respond to it publicly very soon. But that, in turn, will of course have an influence on the contracts awarded to home care providers.
The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, can the Minister give the House an idea of how much the increase in
national insurance contributions will cost the charities concerned? He says that it may be only 0.7 per cent of payroll costs. I have heard estimates of as much as £50 million.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, that is quite implausible. The figure for the whole health and social work sector in this country will be £270 million. That sum covers many times the number of staff involved in home care. Only 200,000 staff are involved in home care, including all the administrative staff. I do not know what the figure is. There is no way of knowing what it is, but it is not that quoted by the noble Earl, Lord Northesk.
Badgers and Bovine TB
2.54 p.m.
Baroness Trumpington asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What their position is regarding badgers and bovine tuberculosis.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty): My Lords, tuberculosis in cattle is one of the most difficult animal health problems that we face and the increase in its incidence continues to give considerable concern. The Government are seeking to proceed on the basis of sound science drawn from independent scientific and veterinary experts. The causes of the disease are complex, but there is evidence to suggest that the badger plays a role in bovine TB. The badger field trial is designed to quantify any such role and, if it exists, to find out whether culling badgers has a part to play in controlling the disease.
Baroness Trumpington: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Have the researches taken into account whether other European countries have bovine TB, whether we are high in the pecking order of countries that have it, which countries do not have it, and whether the countries that have it have badgers?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I do not have that information at present. We are certainly taking account of the spread of TB in other European countries. It appears that the growth in the incidence of TB in cattle has been greater here than in other European countries. However, I shall write to the noble Baroness with further information on the matter.
Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, how many farms have been affected by bovine TB in the past year, and was testing delayed due to the outbreak of foot and mouth disease?
Lord Whitty: Yes, my Lords. Throughout more or less the whole of last year a delay in veterinary testing was caused by the priority given to controlling foot
and mouth disease. Since then, it is clear that there has been an increase in the incidence of bovine TB. Approximately 10 per cent of all cattle herds have been affected. The total number of individual cattle affected thus far is quite low—some 9,000 in a national herd of 8 million—but the incidence of the disease is growing in a worrying way.
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