House of Lords
Thursday, 23rd May 2002.
The House met at three of the clock (Prayers having been read earlier at the Judicial Sitting by the Lord Bishop of Birmingham): The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Al-Jazeera
Lord Campbell-Savours asked Her Majesty's Government:
- On how many occasions in the last month the British ambassador in Doha has raised the issue of Al-Jazeera operations with representatives of the state of Qatar.
The Minister for Trade (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean): My Lords, Her Majesty's ambassador in Doha has regular meetings with both the Qatari Foreign Minister and the Director of European and American Affairs at the Qatari Foreign Ministry. The issue of Al-Jazeera was raised during the month in question. My right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister and my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Ben Bradshaw, also discussed Al-Jazeera with the Qatari Foreign Minister during his recent visit to the United Kingdom.
Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, I thank my noble friend. That was an excellent Answer. I could not have written a better Answer myself. It will be greatly welcomed by all those people in the United Kingdom who look forward to an Al-Jazeera English language service. Can my noble friend impress upon Ministers in the Government the need to utilise the services of Al-Jazeera when they want to get a message over to people in the Arab world?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that pleasant little bouquet. We should not naturally assume that there will be English language translations of Al-Jazeera, but I do believe that the positive contribution Al-Jazeera has made to encouraging free debate on political and social issues in the Middle East is considerable. Of course we welcome the opportunities for United Kingdom Ministers to present their message directly to an Arab audience. My right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have done so. Indeed, I did so myself only yesterday when discussing business opportunities for women in the Arab world.
Turkey: Human Rights
3.2 p.m.
Lord Hylton asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether they are discussing with the Government of Turkey allegations of the use of torture in that country and of the denial of education in Kurdish to members of that minority.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, our officials in Ankara discuss human rights issues regularly with the Turkish authorities and raise specific cases, including those highlighted by your Lordships. In June this year senior officials will launch a human rights dialogue with Turkey. Turkey's human rights record was discussed at the EC-Turkey Association Council in April and most recently last Friday 17th May at a meeting of political directors from Turkey and the European Union.
Lord Hylton: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her reply. Can she say whether the Government had any success in their discussions with the Turkish Government? Has the noble Baroness read recent reports by Sir Nigel Rodney on torture in Turkey, which include, for example, falaka or bastinado and rape, and his comments on impunity for those who have inflicted torture?
Will she ensure that recent arrests and prosecutions of students who have asked for lessons in the Kurdish language, together with the comments of the OSCE, the Council of Europe and the Inter-Parliamentary Union, are brought to the attention urgently of the EU Commissioner with responsibility for expansion and enlargement?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I am aware of the report to which the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, refers. There is this year's report and there was another one in 1998. Of course, the contents of the reports are being put into the dialogue which the United Kingdom has on a bilateral basis and which we will take forward again next month, and indeed the discussions that are going forward on a European basis. The noble Lord can rest assured that we are very much alive to these difficulties and are raising them with the Turkish authorities.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, does the Minister agree that, while much further reform is required in Turkey, as the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, has indicated, and while torture is revolting wherever it occurs, it would probably be unwise to link the necessary reforms in Turkey, which are beginning to go forward anyway, too closely with EU membership and its prospects, since that may not happen and since there appear to be some radical new thoughts in Turkey about the role that that great nation will play, which might be more of a bridge between the EU and Asia than actual membership of the EU itself?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I believe that not only the Government in Turkey but most European countries look forward to being able to welcome Turkey into the EU in due course. I agree with the noble Lord that it is not all gloom over the issues about changes in humanitarian law in Turkey. There have been constitutional changes. They are working through the system. It is very much to be hoped that Turkish parliamentarians will continue to work speedily and indeed with a sense of purpose to bring home those reforms.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, is the Minister aware that a great many of those reforms exist on paper only and are not implemented on the ground? Has she seen, for example, the report of the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture? It says that in the Kurdish regions a substantial number of cases of torture are still occurring. Is she aware of the report of the Turkish human rights association, the IHD, which shows that more torture cases occurred in the first nine months of 2001 than in the whole of the year 2000?
With regard to the teaching of the Kurdish language, does the noble Baroness agree that it is incompatible with the Copenhagen principles for Turkey to continue to resist minority language education and that that is a must for Turkey entering on to the ladder of accession?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, Turkey is committed to the elimination of torture as a short-term priority in its national programme for the adoption of the acquis, which was published in response to the accession partnership declaration put forward by the EU. The Turkish Government are strengthening their legal and administrative measures to fight against torture. But of course the noble Lord is quite right. We also have to see real implementation of those measures. It is important to note that such measures were legislated upon, not only in October last year but again in March this year.
As to Kurdish language education, that is another very important topic. Progress is being made on broadcasting, but there are issues still around using the official language of the country in schools, which is in the Turkish constitution. We very much hope that, within that constitution, Turkish authorities will find a way forward on the issue.
Lord Lea of Crondall: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that although it is true, as the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, said, that Turkey is looking eastwards at many of its former historical contacts, that in no way reduces the commitment of the Turkish Government, as we understood it—some parliamentarians went to Turkey a couple of weeks ago—to making accession to the European Union a very high priority? In that connection, it is precisely because of the importance that the Turkish Government attach to accession to the European Union that the intense discussions on the Copenhagen criteria are producing step-by-step progress. That does not detract at all from the problems raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hylton. Nevertheless, that priority is there.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I hope that I have made the United Kingdom Government's position very clear; that we want to work with Turkey to eradicate the kinds of problems that the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, has again brought to our attention today. But we do not believe that there is any falling off in Turkey's commitment in pursuing its European candidature. Indeed, I, too, have been in Turkey fairly recently. My impression was very much like my noble friend's impression—that our friends in Turkey want to pursue their application to join the European Union. In addition, we have seen the constitutional amendments brought forward by the Turkish Parliament which were passed with substantial majorities in both October last year and March this year. I think that gives a good indication of the way in which Turkey is moving.
Lord Rea: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, despite the appearances of a parliamentary regime in Turkey, it is the senior military influences in the National Security Council who really wield the reins of power? Those people are not particularly interested in improving Turkey's human rights records or in early entry to the European Union. Does that not limit our bargaining power somewhat, so that perhaps the only way in which we shall have any influence is by some form of economic sanctions or restricting military assistance? That is rather difficult at the moment when Turkey is so vital to our proposed operations in Afghanistan and the continuing operations against Iraq.
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