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Baroness Blatch: In response to what the noble Lord, Lord Dearing, has said, many schools that are struggling against the odds are damned often by reputation and often by people knowing that it is not the best school in the town. If I, as a parent, moved into an area and looked for a school for my children and I knew that the target for attendance at a school was less than 100 per cent—it may be 60, 70, 80 or 90 per cent—I would be very concerned about sending my children there. I would know that a certain percentage of the children at that school would not be expected to be in school at any given time.
I agree with the noble Lord that there is a problem and that we should approach it from a different angle. Such a school should be given as much support as possible to help it to fight against those odds even though it has a high percentage of non-compliant parents in the area. One should do that through support systems, through liaising with the police, and through finding innovative ways of trying to connect with the parents and remind them of their obligations. Setting a target below 100 per cent will damn a school and that will certainly not achieve the objective.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dearing. We are trying to find a mechanism. The noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, is absolutely right to say that we want 100 per cent of children in school at all times. Some of our schools, in challenging circumstances, have a real difficulty with the issue of school attendance. We are trying to move them towards that figure. The purpose of this clause is to remove the difference between "unauthorised" and "authorised" in order to create one target on attendance. We have spoken to education authorities and schools, which have welcomed that move.
With regard to whether targets work, there is always a case of the jury being out. We know, however, that as a result of the targets that we set, in the past two years the level of unauthorised absence in primary schools has decreased in 44 local education authorities. We also know that the level of unauthorised absence in secondary schools has decreased in 60 local education authorities. It is an ongoing process that is being used as a means of ensuring that we work closely with our schools and put in the right kind of support mechanisms. In that respect, I could not agree more with the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch.
It is important to encourage schools to focus on the issue of moving towards the target to which we all aspire and to put in place targets that they will try to meet to ensure that children are in school. I do not believe that the noble Baroness and I are in disagreement about this matter. It is a mechanical process: a way of ensuring, on the basis of what the
noble Lord, Lord Dearing has said, that we have in place targets towards which schools can work. On that basis, I hope that the clause will stand part of the Bill.
Baroness Blatch: I still profoundly disagree with the Minister. It is not right to say that we are both coming from the same place. I do not believe that we are. The intention of this clause is to include authorised as well as unauthorised absences. The Minister has already said that a number of remedies are in place for dealing with parents who do not send their children to school.
If we are referring to schools that find it difficult to get children to attend because their parents are not complying, by either condoning the absence, failing to alert the school of problems, or not meeting their own obligations to get their children to school, that is the issue to be tackled. The schools would welcome tougher action being taken with parents who are non-compliant in relation to sending their children to school. However, it seems bizarre to put the target on the school by saying, "You as a school must expect to achieve only 80 or 90 per cent attendance". The target should be 100 per cent. If the parents are at fault in not sending their children to school, that is the problem that the Government should address.
I withdraw my opposition to the Question that this clause stand part of the Bill, but we shall certainly return to it at another stage.
Clause 54 [Power of LEA to provide for governing body to consist of interim executive members]:
The Lord Bishop of Blackburn moved Amendment No. 229:
- Page 37, line 26, at end insert—
The right reverend Prelate said: I rise to speak to Amendment No. 229 in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool. At first glance, it may seem a strange amendment to move in the light of subsection (2)(4) of the clause, but I hope to explain that in a moment.
I say at the outset that nothing in this amendment goes against the thrust of this clause in the Bill. If there are problems in the governing body of a voluntary-aided school that lead to the failure of a school, they need to be addressed. But we look for some assurance at the outset of the process. It seems to us that before consenting to the process beginning and taking up the point made by the local authority, the Secretary of State should at least check out this matter with the appropriate diocesan authorities.
Although in this country relations are excellent between most local authorities and the governors of voluntary-aided schools, sadly there are cases in which, for doctrinaire or whatever other reasons, some
I re-emphasise that there is nothing in this amendment which runs against the thrust of Clause 54 in trying to impose, where appropriate, an interim executive board. However, I hope that in her reply the Minister will give me the small amendment that I seek in order that the governors of aided schools may feel rather more secure than they do with the clause as presently drafted. I beg to move.
Lord Alton of Liverpool: I am very happy to support the remarks made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Blackburn. The point that he made about the non-controversial nature of this clause is one with which I agree. It is right that the Government should take these powers to deal with the imposition of interim executive members in the case of the schools that are mentioned in subsection (1) and also in other subsections. However, it does not spell out exactly what would happen in the case of diocesan schools. I know that not only the Church of England authorities but also the Catholic Education Service are concerned about what would happen in such circumstances.
I hope that the Government are minded to accept the spirit of this amendment. If the Minister believes that the first line of consultation, as it were, should be with the local education authority, perhaps he could tell the Committee what would happen in the case of the sort of dispute outlined by the right reverend Prelate. If there were to be a dispute, can the Minister say who would be the point of reference in those circumstances? Even if it is not on the face of the Bill, the Minister's clarification in that respect could meet some of the concerns that have been raised.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: If there is any issue between us—I do not believe that there is—it is not whether there should be consultation with diocesan authorities, but who does the consultation. There are two ways in which interim executive members can be appointed to replace the governing body of a school where that school requires "special measures" or has "serious weaknesses": first, by the local authority, with the consent of the Secretary of State, and following consultation. Consultation will include the appropriate diocesan authority in the case of a foundation or voluntary school, which is Church of England, Church of Wales or a Roman Catholic School. The second possibility is appointment by the Secretary of State, following consultation with the relevant diocesan authority and others, unless the LEA has already undertaken this consultation.
We have not been debating these interim executive measures because no other amendments have been tabled on the subject. The intention is that such powers should be used only in exceptional circumstances where there is a need for prompt, rapid intervention to improve standards. On the first option, the Secretary of State will expect to be informed about the LEA's consultation on appointing interim executive members in considering the LEA's case. If there is any concern that the appropriate diocesan authority has not been consulted adequately, the Secretary of State will request further details, asking for sight of any correspondence or notes of meetings, or will undertake further consultation.
We do not wish to impose more work on the diocesan authorities by legislating for the duplication of consultation. I hope that the assurance I have given—namely, that the interests of diocesan authorities are already protected in either case—will meet the concerns expressed by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Blackburn.
"( ) In the case of a Church of England school, a Church in Wales school or a Roman Catholic Church school, before giving consent to the exercise by the local education authority of the powers conferred by subsection (1), the Secretary of State shall consult the appropriate diocesan authority."
9.30 p.m.
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