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Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, we had an interesting debate in Committee, following which the amendment was withdrawn, and we have had an
equally interesting opening speech from the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley now. I am sure that she will accept that I would do a lot to stop her bringing the amendment back again, but unfortunately not what she wants me to do.I accept entirely her support for specialisms. Our debate and conversations around the issue of schools with specialisms have moved a long way, and I am grateful for the dialogue that we have had. I understand the position held by the noble Baroness. She is absolutely right that there are only a few schools—I have a figure of 6 per cent rather than 7 per cent. The difference between us is that there are certain circumstances when a school is over-subscribed; it does not apply if a school is not over-subscribed. There is a small percentage of students who have a particular talent—I use the word "talent" deliberately. I searched for a word that works better for me than something that is quite nebulous. Such students might be allowed to come into a school. Noble Lords will know that we have been careful about the specialisms to which this applies. I have talked about the performing arts and sport. Does the next David Beckham exist out there? I hope so, as we may need him before too long.
We are trying to find a figure that represents a comparatively small number of pupils—say 10 per cent—that safeguards parents' wishes to get a place at their local school and gives those children with a particular talent for the subject in which the school specialises the opportunity to be admitted to that school which might otherwise not have been possible. We have said that such schools are under no obligation to select by aptitude in their admission arrangements. An over-subscription criterion can be applied only if there are more applications for a school than it has places available.
I understand that there are parents who do not think that that is appropriate, but there are others—and I can say this because of the letters that the department receives—who believe that it is sensible that children with an aptitude for a school's specialist subject should have the opportunity to attend that school. I find it difficult to understand why such children should not be able to do so.
We are committed to the comprehensive system, but we are also committed to modernising it and creating diversity. Allowing schools this small flexibility that will enable some pupils to benefit from their expertise in a particular area is one small part of our drive to achieve that aim. With that in mind, I hope that the noble Baroness will be able to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, am I wrong in thinking that the amendment applies only to nursery schools? There has been much talk about schools accepting 10 per cent of children on the basis of an aptitude for a particular subject, but my understanding is that that does not apply to nursery schools. This part of the Bill
seems to relate only to nursery schools. Indeed, the whole of the previous Clause 13 is certainly about nursery schools.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, I am not aware that that is the case. I do not believe that I have been given any false information in that respect. But, obviously, if that is so, I shall write to the noble Baroness and clarify the position. As far as I know, neither the mover of the amendment nor I in replying to the amendment believe that the way it is positioned has that effect. The noble Baroness is very experienced in these matters. I shall, of course, look into the matter in the mean time.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response. I stand before the House as a living, breathing example of why this is a daft measure and, indeed, could be dangerous. When I was aged about 11 or 12, I was thought to have a budding talent for languages. Anyone who has ever heard me speak French will know that that was a mistake; and so it turned out to be. It transpired that I had a talent for the sciences. If my whole career had been based on that incorrect and misleading premise, there might have been some kind of disaster in my educational outcomes. However, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 49 [Exclusion of pupils]:
Lord Lucas moved Amendment No. 98A:
- Page 33, line 11, at end insert—
The noble Lord said: My Lords, in moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 98C. I shall not speak to Amendment No. 98B, which, on looking at it this evening, appears to me to be complete rubbish. It is certainly nothing like the amendment that I intended to table. I presume that it was a slip of the pen, but I score zero for drafting on this occasion.
I believe that I have also made a mistake in the drafting of Amendment No. 98A. At the end of the first line, the amendment refers to "the responsible body". Under this clause, I thought that that would be a reference to the school, but I now suspect that it would refer to the disciplinary committee. Clearly, I mean the school in this part of the amendment, because it is the school that has the responsibility to assess people regarding special educational needs, not the disciplinary committee. I apologise to the House for having made those errors.
I return to the substance of the amendments. Amendment No. 98A is concerned with special educational needs and exclusions. My understanding
Therefore, where a child appears in front of the disciplinary committee for exclusion, I am trying, by way of Amendment No. 98A, to ensure that the school must show the committee that it has conducted a proper investigation into whether the child has special educational needs—and, if so, that it has made proper provision for such needs—and that the exclusion is being sought despite the school having operated properly in that regard.
At an earlier stage, the Minister made reference to the latest statistics for exclusion. She said that it appeared that children with SEN were now much less likely to be excluded. There are some funny aspects to those statistics; for example, the number of pupils with SEN in pupil referral units does not appear to have decreased at all. Indeed, it has gone up slightly. Why that should happen if referrals of children with SEN are going down is not apparent to me. My understanding is that the matter is being looked at by statisticians. We shall know in a few weeks or months, perhaps, the reason behind that anomaly.
In any event, we should recognise that undiagnosed special educational needs are not uncommon in the school system. They can be disguised. Many break out in the form of behavioural difficulties. Certainly, in some of the better special schools for dyslexia that I have seen, it is very noticeable that the kids arriving in the first year have noticeable behavioural problems that are not fundamental. They are merely by-products of their dyslexia not being observed or properly treated and/or of the way that other pupils in the school have treated them as a result of their dyslexia. We should be particularly careful in relation to exclusions to make sure that a child who may have special educational needs has been properly assessed.
Amendment No. 98C returns to a subject that we discussed in Committee. The Bill, as it is now before us, has the school's right to exclude, but there has been chopped out, in comparison with previous legislation, the parents' right to information, appeal and guidance. That is now to be consigned to secondary legislation. I do not think that that is the right balance. It leaves matters for parents far too uncertain. In this kind of matter appearances and status are important. Parents and pupils count. In legislation, their voice should be equal to that of the school.
In relation to the particular aspects of the proposed amendment, I say that the school should have a duty to inform parents and the pupil, whoever is the relevant person or persons in a particular circumstance, of the opportunities that they have to deal with the situation in which they find themselves. Therefore, they are told of the period of exclusion and the reasons for it. They
The amendment is in response to the noble Baroness's criticism of an amendment which I tabled in Committee. That stated that the parents should always have the right to say something to the disciplinary committee. There are occasions when many little exclusions suddenly end up in an application for a permanent exclusion, and the child's parents had no previous chance to discuss their child's case with the governing body or with any other kind of appeal forum within the school.
I can see that the noble Baroness is saying that if I put things in the way that I did in my amendment in Committee that would create difficulties. I seek to provide the opportunity for the flexibility of secondary legislation or guidance to address the fact that, where a kid is continually excluded for a day or two, there ought to be proper consultation between the school and an opportunity for parents to make representations in order to make sure that the child's circumstances are properly understood.
Paragraph (d) is an additional suggestion. Where a child is going to be permanently excluded, the parents ought to be pointed in the direction of the support and advocacy services. The noble Baroness and I both discussed those matters in Committee. They are available to such parents in those circumstances. I beg to move.
"(ba) requiring that, as part of any such consideration, the responsible body show by way of documentary evidence following recommended practice laid down in the Code of Practice on the Identification and Assessment of Special Educational Needs that it had—
(i) considered whether the child has any special educational needs, and
(ii) that it made appropriate provision for such needs."
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