| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Baroness Masham of Ilton: My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady David, on raising this important matter and thank her for giving me the chance to ask the Minister a question. England is bigger, more complicated and has more paedophiles. Why a commissioner for Wales but not for England? I hope that the Minister will do something about that and correct it.
Lots of hidden things are going on about which we do not know and children cannot say what is happening. That includes children in boarding schools. I know that there are problems in boarding schools and people who want to abuse children have a clever way of getting in there and getting a job. I therefore hope that the Minister will do all that he can to help children and to give some clout to the role.
8 p.m.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, the House is grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady David, for ensuring that we debate this important issue. That gives me the opportunity to ask the Minister some questions. Of course, we on these Benches agree with the noble Baroness that those vulnerable children need special protection.
The Department of Health held a three-month consultation on the draft regulations—this statutory instrument—earlier this year. How many responses were received? How do the draft regulations differ from those before us today, and why have those changes been made?
In April, the Secretary of State announced that the National Care Standards Commission is to be taken over by two new bodies, the commission for healthcare audit and inspection and the commission for social care inspection. As the NCSC will shortly no longer exist in its current format, will that have any implications for the regulations? Will the changes to the National Care Standards Commission require primary legislation? When does the Minister anticipate that those changes will take place? How many staff will work in the Children's Rights Director's office, and what will be the budget? Regulations can be effective only if they are implemented.
According to the Explanatory Notes, the director is to be appointed by the National Care Standards Commission and will be a member of the NCSC's staff. However, many functions of the director as detailed in the SI require him to report back to the NCSC. For instance, Regulation 3(1)(m) requires the director to report to the commission about the availability and quality of regulated children's services. Obviously, the aim should not be for the director to report back to his own office within the NCSC. Are the regulations clear enough to ensure that
the work of the Children's Right's Director is reported back to a different appropriate authority within the NCSC?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lady David for allowing us to debate the regulations and to revisit some of the important and interesting matters that some of us debated during the passage of the Care Standards Act 2000. The creation of the Children's Rights Director was an important measure that we agreed as part of setting up the National Care Standards Commission. The director is able to act as a powerful champion for some of the most vulnerable children in our country. Mr Roger Morgan, who has been appointed to the post, is already working hard to establish that important new role. The regulations enable the Children's Rights Director to perform that role in the most effective way possible.
We consulted on the regulation and, in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Astor, we received 40 responses, including responses from voluntary organisations providing services to children, social services departments and children's rights organisations. The changes that we have made are mainly drafting changes; there are no changes of substance from the draft regulations. But that in itself does not detract from the benefit of holding the consultation.
As the noble Lord, Lord Astor, suggested, the Children's Rights Director is a specialist director at the headquarters of the National Care Standards Commission and reports to the chief executive of the commission. The scope of the Children's Rights Director ranges across all the different constituencies of children receiving services regulated under the Care Standards Act 2000. As the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, suggested, that covers a wide range of services—residential and nursing homes, children's homes, private and voluntary hospitals and clinics, fostering agencies, independent medical agencies, boarding schools and local authority adopting and fostering services—provided to support and help vulnerable children.
The Children's Rights Director's role is aimed at responding to those children who are most in need of safeguarding. It is about listening to children and helping to protect them from harm. The Children's Rights Director has a special role in ensuring that vulnerable children have a voice in all decisions that affect them.
In addition, the Children's Rights Director will ensure that the commission provides full and effective coverage of children's rights in its statutory responsibilities for regulated children's services. Any significant evidence relevant to the rights and safety of children gathered through the process of regulation and assessment will be reported to the commission and disseminated in order to help local authorities and other providers to improve the services and support offered to children.
Of course, I listened with a great deal of care and attention to the points raised by my noble friend. If she reads the regulations, she will comprehend the
extensive range of responsiblities of the Children's Rights Director laid down, especially in Regulation 3. Regulation 3(1)(a)(i) provides that the director,
- "safeguards and promotes the rights and welfare of children who are provided with regulated children's services".
- "gives proper consideration to the views of children to whom regulated children's services are provided and to the views of the parents of such children".
- "to ascertain . . . the views of children about regulated children's services provided to them . . . and to report such views to the Commission in so far as they are relevant to the discharge by the Commission of its functions".
- "to monitor and review the effectiveness of the arrangements made by the providers of regulated children's services".
I draw the attention of the noble Lord, Lord Astor, to sub-paragraph (k), which states:
- "to report to the Commission"—
- "and the Secretary of State".
That means that, even though that person is an employee of the National Care Standards Commission, not only is that office-holder named in statute and regulations are brought before your Lordships' House to set out that person's functions; he can report directly to the Secretary of State any significant evidence relating to the rights and welfare of children who are provided with regulated children's services. The powers set out in the regulations are substantial. They will be used to great effect by the occupant of that extremely responsible post.
My noble friend also raised an interesting point about whether the Children's Rights Director could require information to be provided. My understanding is that the commission itself can require information. I draw my noble friend's attention to Clause 31(1) of the Care Standards Act 2000. Accordingly, the Children's Rights Director can require information via the commission's capacity to do so.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth of Breckland, suggested, if we were to annul the regulations and render them unusable, the functions of the Children's Rights Director would not be set out. A postholder would still be in place, but only as an employee and not as a special champion for children at the National Care Standards Commission.
Several important points were raised. I listened with great interest to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, who asked specifically about the impact of creating the new inspectorate. I well recognise that it is a significant change, which comes at a time when the National Care Standards Commission is bedding down, appointing staff and developing its functions. I recognise that we are asking a great deal of the board and the staff of the commission, and I want to pay tribute to them for the enormous dedication and motivation that they bring to their task and for the support that they are giving to the changes. It has been remarkable, and the Government recognise that.
Creating a single, comprehensive inspectorate for social care that brings together the inspection functions of the Social Services Inspectorate and the National Care Standards Commission will produce a rigorous inspection system, in which the public interest will be safeguarded and enhanced.
The noble Lord, Lord Astor of Hever, asked how the role of the Children's Rights Director would fit into the new arrangements. I cannot answer that question directly; we are still considering the matter. We must consider also the implications of the transfer of some of the functions of the National Care Standards Commission to the new Commission for Healthcare Audit and Inspection. We will consider the matter carefully. We are, of course, considering the legislative implications, but I know that the noble Lord will not expect me to go any further on that. He also raised the issue of budgets and staff. We must recognise that the National Care Standards Commission is still at an early stage of development. I will ask the commission to keep in touch with the noble Lord on those matters.
The issue of a children's commissioner overrides the specific questions that we are debating. My noble friend Lady David has raised the matter assiduously at every possible opportunity. I do not doubt the symbolism and importance of such a post to those who passionately argue for it. I would never underestimate the importance of that symbolism. However, we need to take a hard-headed approach and analyse exactly what a children's commissioner would do. How would the commissioner's responsibility compare with existing mechanisms? Ultimately, we must ask whether having a children's commissioner would actually add value. Would it simply duplicate good work already being done? Would it dash the expectations, which may be impossibly high, of those who argue for such a post?
I hope that I can respond positively to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, and say that I would welcome further debate along those lines. We should base our debate on consideration of experience in Wales. We are examining with great interest the work of the Welsh Children's Commissioner and the discussions taking place in the other devolved administrations. I would point out, however, that the commissioners being discussed in the other devolved administrations differ from each other with regard to the responsibilities that they are to be given. I agree with the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. I would welcome a dispassionate analysis of the potential added value of having a children's commissioner, together with an analysis of what the Government seek to do to ensure that the voice of the child is heard.
It is not the time for me to go into extensive detail about the initiatives that the Government have taken. We have established a Children and Young People's Unit across government; we have established a Cabinet Committee on Children and Young People's Services; there is a Children's Rights Director; and, in the Department of Health, we have appointed a national clinical director for children, and we are
working on a national service framework for children's services. We are also considering the potential reform of the ombudsman structure in England to allow children greater access to the system, and we are developing advocacy services for children. The measures that the Government are taking comprise a very powerful package that truly puts the interests of children at the centre of our thinking.We will surely have further debate on the question of a children's commissioner. In that debate, those who argue in favour of having such a post should compare what a children's commissioner might do with what is already being done, rather than simply saying that, in Wales—and, perhaps, in the other devolved administrations—there is a Children's Commissioner and that that is, per se, a good thing, while what is happening in England is a bad thing. We must have a debate about the added value of what is being suggested. I say that because it would be all too easy for the Government to say that we will have a children's commissioner, although that commissioner will either duplicate or be peripheral to what is already being done. One of the advantages of the measures that we have put in place is that the Children's Rights Director is part of the National Care Standards Commission, so he or she will be informed by much of the activity of the commission in exercising regulatory authority.
I have spoken at some length on the matter. I do not want noble Lords to think that I am here to dismiss out of hand the possibility of having a children's commissioner. I recognise why there are those who are attracted to that proposal. Equally, however, I must defend the Government's programme. We have introduced several measures to promote the rights of children and their right to be heard. The Children's Rights Director is an important office that will bring a great deal of help and advice to children and children's services. Therefore I hope that my noble friend will consider withdrawing her Motion. I hope that she considers that I have listened with a great deal of attention to what she said. The Children's Rights Director has considerable powers and will use them to great effect.
Next Section
Back to Table of Contents
Lords Hansard Home Page