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Lord Mayhew of Twysden: My Lords, will the noble Lord kindly reflect on the provisions that give the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor the power to repeal by order even the curtailed right to judicial review given by Clause 89? Will the noble Lord speculate on the reasons that the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor might advance for repealing
that curtailed right, other, perhaps, than that an order would be subject only to a debate of an hour and a half and would not be subject to amendment?
Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords, I share the noble and learned Lord's bewilderment about that. It is not a matter to which the committee drew attention, but I find it baffling. I must choose my words carefully, but, in some respects, the Bill calls to mind the words of Winston Churchill about a similar power—the power to detain without trial. As noble Lords will remember, he described it as being,
- "in the highest degree odious".
6.58 p.m.
Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws: My Lords, many of us who take a close interest in asylum issues are saddened that the Government have been seduced by right-wing demagoguery into making the recent changes to the Bill. The Government seemed to be seeking to do something honourable and create a policy that was coherent, clear, fair and non-racist. The publication of the White Paper gave some hope that knowledgeable voices would be listened to, but it is clear that, despite submissions and warnings, those voices have not been heeded in any meaningful way. Research, even that conducted by the Home Office, has been ignored. Major parts of the Bill have gone undebated in the other place.
As the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, said, the other place did not have before it the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, because the Home Office had failed to meet the deadlines for its response. Many of us who are involved in human rights are concerned that the Bill has substantial implications for human rights. It seems to us indicative of an attitude of mind towards human rights that no account could be given to that report in the debates in the other place.
Many aspects of the Government's policy are deserving of support. I was one of the critics of the voucher system. I was really heartened by the decision to end it. I welcome the Government's tougher custodial sentences for vile trafficking in human beings, particularly of women and children for sexual purposes. I also applauded the opening up of legitimate channels of entry for economic migrants. I believe that it is clearly beneficial that there should be citizenship classes to encourage civic participation and enhance knowledge of our duties as citizens and the rights which citizenship bestow. It seems to me that it may be a project which could be expanded to embrace more systems.
I agree with the Home Secretary that some knowledge of English is hugely important if people are to enjoy a genuine sense of engagement and belonging in this country. I have seen far too often how women in immigrant communities can feel exiled and marooned because they cannot help their children with reading, cannot attend parent-teacher meetings, take control of their own healthcare needs or acquire skills for themselves. It sometimes leaves them at the mercy of
over-controlling or abusive partners. Their isolation can sometimes lead to mental health problems. Statistically, Asian women commit suicide at a higher rate than any other section of the community. It is one of those unspoken scandals in our society.However, while accepting some of the positive proposals coming from the Home Secretary, I share the view of many that asylum and immigration issues do not require many of the proposals contained in this Bill. It is wholly contradictory to espouse a policy of social inclusion, extolling the virtues of assimilation and citizenship, yet to put asylum seekers into detention camps.
It will not surprise noble Lords that one of my main concerns with this Bill is the way in which judicial scrutiny from the actions of the executive is, in certain circumstances, excluded. How can it possibly be just to expect people to conduct an effective appeal from another country? There is no guarantee that an asylum seeker, removed to a third country, would be allowed to remain there in order to exercise his or her right of appeal back in the UK. The British Government would no longer have any jurisdiction over what happens to them.
How does an adjudicator judge the credibility of an appellant when the appellant cannot give evidence? How will legal aid work? Will foreign lawyers be expected to fathom the complexities of UK law or will UK lawyers communicate by fax, e-mail or rotten telephone lines, if such wondrous technology is readily available to the applicant?
Refusal of asylum revolves principally around the credibility of the applicant. How fair would an appeal be when the appellant cannot give evidence in person on vital matters so that their credibility can be assessed and material facts verified? Just think of the problems which a woman has giving voice to experiences of rape and sexual humiliation, as many refugees have to do. On paper, an adjudicator has no sense of the reality of that violation.
It is important to consider the extremely poor and often arbitrary nature of Home Office decision-making on asylum claims. Frequently it is junior officials who certify that someone does not have a case for asylum. There is an absence of adequate training, staff supervision and internal quality control within the Home Office. A culture of disbelief informs initial decision-making, which is further compromised by poor and very adversarial interviewing techniques. Imagine what it feels like when you are a person who has come from an experience of torture and degradation to be questioned repeatedly by someone with little competence in that field. Many of these relatively inexperienced officials have little understanding of the countries or the cultures from which the asylum seekers come. Little attempt is made to ensure that the resulting decisions are checked by better qualified and more experienced staff.
So we have junior officials making life and death decisions which lead to the ejection of a refugee before he or she has the chance of a proper judicial review here in this country. It is a scandal and utterly
shameful. It is no wonder that the Joint Committee of Human Rights was so critical of this Bill. I also share the concerns of many immigration lawyers about access to good legal advice. The enjoyment of due process depends on effective access to appropriate legal advice. Like many, I have little confidence in the current arrangements.On the subject of accommodation centres, I wish to emphasise the position of women and children. Eighty-two per cent of asylum seekers are single men. That will not surprise us given the circumstances in which people flee. I am very concerned about the well-being of women if placed in accommodation where they will be so hugely outnumbered. I do not have to remind the Minister that many of them are already very vulnerable women because of the experiences which have caused them to flee—rape, sexual assault at the hands of oppressors. Many single women, single parents and widows, could find themselves very exposed in such a male-dominated environment among men who are lonely and isolated and who have many problems of their own.
I mean no disparagement at all to asylum seekers: it is a fact of the human condition. But to place such women in accommodation centres and so hugely outnumbered, makes them a sitting target for physical and sexual abuse. Only 18 per cent of asylum seekers are families. Those comparatively small numbers of refugees who come with children could easily continue to be dispersed with access to mainstream education and social welfare, as at present. The numbers are really not large.
I, too, wish to remind the Government of their responsibilities under the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Children's needs are very different from those of adults and our responsibilities are therefore the greater. To segregate refugee children from other children in mainstream education flies in the face of everything we are seeking to do to combat racism. There must be a way of alleviating pressures on schools without creating such a divisive system. What we should be talking about is the better management of dispersal and better resourcing of it.
This experiment of accommodation centres has huge risks attached to it. I sincerely hope that the Government have given some thought to the perils of the arrangement. It is my view, shared by many others who have experience on issues of domestic violence and sexual abuse, that such centres cannot be safe environments for women and children. But if such a scheme were to work it would mean creating separate facilities for single women and families with safeguards to protect women and children. So the cost will not be small. Would it not be better to divert it again into the management of dispersal. I issue a warning. I do hope that the Government realise what they are doing.
The issue of asylum is an issue of justice. Like so many, I have a great sense of pride that Britain has, on the whole, been a sanctuary for the persecuted. My own mother-in-law came here as a refugee in 1938, fleeing Nazism in Vienna. She was a doctor. From the
beginnings of the National Health Service, when she had her qualifications recognised, she devoted herself unstintingly to the healthcare of her patients in a very under-privileged part of Birmingham. Our country has been hugely enriched by people like her who come to our shores. We should give no sustenance to those who disparage refugees; people who are driven by desperate measures to settle here.I regret aspects of the Bill. It does no credit to us, particularly to a government committed to social justice. I hope, therefore, that Ministers will think again about what has been said in the course of the debate.
7.10 p.m.
Lord Hylton: My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Best, is no longer in his place. Nevertheless, I urge the Government to reflect carefully on the practical proposal that he put forward earlier today. I have known him for well over 35 years. I have always found him in various capacities to be extremely well informed.
After more than 30 years in your Lordships' House I have come to realise that it is not sufficient to say something once only. It seems that it requires copious repetition before a concept begins to sink into the official mind. I repeat, therefore, what I said at the Third Reading of the 1999 Bill and last Tuesday, 18th June, during the debate introduced by my noble friend Lord Sandwich. There are, I believe, three principles which should guide policy on immigration and refugees: knowledge of English; family reunion; and connection with Britain. I refer to Hansard for the reasoning behind this basic proposition which so far no one has questioned.
I turn to the current Bill and note that it is the fifth Bill on the subject in 11 years. I have taken part in debate on all of them and I wish that it had not been necessary. Although I once carried an amendment on a Division, thanks to an ambush kindly arranged by the noble Lord who is now Captain of the Yeomen of the Guard, I can imagine the groans that rose from many noble Lords when yet another White Paper and Bill came in sight. The sorry record under all recent governments shows that these matters cannot be solved by legislation alone but depend on common sense and good administration. Good administration, I am sorry to say, is something that neither the Home Office nor the National Asylum Support Service has been successful in providing. For those reasons I shall concentrate today on one aspect of this complex subject—an aspect which the Bill does not mention; namely, the quality of the initial decisions in application for refugee status and exceptional leave to remain.
At present the annual rate of applications plus the backlog of cases well exceeds 80,000 cases. In recent years the number of favourable decisions has been roughly doubled by successful appeals. It cannot be satisfactory that about half the initial decisions are later shown to be wrong. I suggest that this arises
because the Home Office has consistently refused to listen to the views of refugee representatives and practitioners, and academics who have studied the subject.Professor Goodwin-Gill, Professor of International Refugee Law at Oxford, wrote about the previous Bill in The Times of 28th October 1999:
- "The Home Office maintains more or less exactly the procedure it had when I first dealt with the Asylum Unit at Croydon some 25 years ago".
- "What is needed is a decentralisation of Home Office authority, a radically revised decision-making process, that puts applicants and their representatives face to face with those who decide their fate, and a better understanding of . . . human rights".
- "You can't judge credibility on the basis of someone's written report"
The first approach to better decisions is to provide adequate training at all levels, especially at the front line at ports and places of interview. Staff supervision and internal quality control within the Home Office come next. The "culture of disbelief" whereby field workers routinely disbelieve applicants' stories and accounts of their own countries should be ended. One official should oversee cases from start to finish. That is not the position at present. Decision makers should have to defend their decisions to appeal adjudicators. High quality interpreters should always be provided for applicants who may not understand official English or have difficulty in expressing themselves. As has been mentioned, decisions will always be better when applicants have been advised by lawyers or experienced practitioners. Such advice will also help to identify torture victims at an early stage. Applicants should not be expected to complete a 16-page form or to go to an important first interview without proper advice.
If these simple steps are taken, huge quantities of appeals will be avoided. The appeal and tribunal procedures come under the jurisdiction of the Lord Chancellor rather than the Home Office. I welcome the desire of the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland of Asthal, for better co-operation between the two departments and improvements in the appeal procedures.
Suggestions have been made for independent determination of status and for an independent documentation centre open to all parties containing factual information about countries of origin. Canada has both those facilities. They are desirable but far more important are immediate steps to improve the quality of initial decisions. I had planned to discuss such improvements with the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, before Second Reading but, alas, that had to be postponed. I commend the suggestions I have made to Her Majesty's Government and urge them to start on them tomorrow without waiting for the Bill eventually to become law. The need is urgent. There can, I suggest, be no reasons for delay.
7.17 p.m.
Lord Berkeley: My Lords, it may come as no surprise to noble Lords to hear me say that I shall confine my remarks to Schedule 8 on carriers' liability. It is a small part of the Bill but it affects the livelihood of a number of small and large businesses.
I was impressed with the way the Minister introduced the Bill by saying that we must manage the asylum process. That is good. It means that the Government are taking responsibility for what is necessarily a government responsibility; but it has not always been that way. The Government also have a duty to maintain the internal market trade routes. The Government have put on the SRA a duty to encourage cross-Channel rail transport—passenger and freight. I declare an interest as chairman of the Rail Freight Group.
It has seemed sometimes in recent years that the Government's only concern was to turn transport operators—road, rail or sea operators—into unpaid frontier guards of fortress Britain, fining anyone who failed even if he or she were not at fault; and there was no real appeal. The Government lost on that point in the case of Roth in the Court of Appeal earlier this year. There were appeals against the fines on lorries and lorry drivers.
There is now a new code of practice with revisions. However, it was published on 11th June, less than two weeks ago. I do not believe that it has been considered in another place. There are strong arguments—they are supported by the Freight Transport Association—for changes in that code of practice and the schedule to the Bill. It is argued that CO 2 checks on vehicles could constitute an automatic defence; that an independent ombudsman or tribunal should consider appeals; and that fines be per offence and not per illegal immigrant. The maximum fine is £4,000. On occasion 50 people have been found in a container. Whether it involves one or 50 people, it is either an offence or not an offence. However, the level of fine at 50 times £4,000 will put some operators into bankruptcy, whether or not they are guilty. A case can also be made for removing the fines associated with operator liability for the driver.
I turn now to more detailed points with regard to rail freight. Obviously I am concerned to ensure that companies and individuals are not fined unfairly for acts over which they have no control. This originated in the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 under the definition of the "responsible person", referring to anyone who could possibly be blamed for bringing in illegal immigrants hidden in lorries or on trains. It was a very wide definition. Consultation was minimal and at the time there appeared to be little understanding of the contractual arrangements between the railway companies.
The matter reached an all-time low when the Home Office installed a man at the Dollands Moor yard near Folkestone. He counted all the people getting off the trains. On the basis of that number an invoice was sent daily to EWS charging £2,000 per person. The officials did not bother to catch the people; they let them run away into the countryside. However, the invoice was always sent.
Occasionally people have chosen to take freight trains to go back to France. One person thought that it was the normal means to return for a family wedding. I do not know whether on that occasion the Home Office considered refunding the £2,000. That level of fines nearly killed the business because EWS had no powers to tell the French railway operators what to do. However, to some extent that was mitigated when in February this year the Home Office wrote to EWS confirming that it accepted that the company was not the "responsible person" within the definition.
That came about partly because last November SNCF stopped operating its train services because members of its staff were being attacked. At long last the two governments began to take the matter seriously. They accepted that prevention of the entry of illegal immigrants is a matter for governments. I suggest it is primarily the responsibility of the government wishing to keep people out. It is difficult to expect the French to take too seriously an operation to keep in their country people whom they probably do not want there in the first place. However, we are where we are and it is good that EWS has been told that it is no longer to be considered the "responsible person".
The new legislation suggests that at last the Government are listening to the industry. Amendments to the code and to the schedule appear to confirm that EWS, its customers, aggregators and consignors, together with SNCF, are not to be the "persons responsible" under their current contractual arrangements. I shall be grateful if my noble friend on the Front Bench could confirm that. Although it is still a matter of concern, the provisions in the Bill appear to be a great improvement on the previous code and schedule.
Finally, I turn to the question of repatriation. It is nice, if it is true, that EWS and other operators are no longer to be held liable for new fines for bringing people in, despite all their efforts to detect and prevent them. However, one has to ask the next question: why do such operators still have to pay the air fare home of those people not granted asylum? Noble Lords will have heard in times past that many people whom we define, rightly or wrongly, as economic migrants, are well instructed by those who arrange their journeys. Immigrants are told to destroy all sources of identity as they enter this country. Under the Dublin convention, they then cannot be sent back. That ensures that the Government cannot return them from Folkestone to Calais, but must arrange a flight to, for example, Romania.
However, during the processing of asylum applications, suddenly it becomes possible to identify where people have come from. At that point, carrying companies have to pay for their air fares home. It applies to airlines as well as to freight operators. Over the past three or four years, that has cost EWS Railways more than £200,000. It appears that the legislation of the 1971 Act is virtually the same as that set out in the 1999 Act. However, the Government lost their appeal in the Roth case because of
incompatibility with Articles 1 and 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights. I wonder whether my noble friend Lord Filkin would welcome an amendment to the 1971 Act to bring it into line with the new proposal on fines. The Government would not want to find themselves again in court under similar circumstances with regard to repatriation costs, given that they have already lost the case on imposing charges for bringing people in. I should be most interested to hear my noble friend's response to that point, as well as on the question of railway companies' liability.7.26 p.m.
Lord Beaumont of Whitley: My Lords, the first Bill I saw through all its stages in your Lordships' House was the 1968 Kenyan Asians Bill, as it was then called, and to which the noble Lord, Lord Lester, has already referred. At the time, when winding up the debate at Third Reading, I said that it was a national disgrace. In so saying for the first time in my life, but not for the last, I made the headlines of the Evening Standard.
Since then we have seen a number of Bills on this subject. None has really done the trick or we would not be here today. None has been quite right. Things have moved on a little, however. I recall that the only party to stand against the 1968 Bill was the old Liberal Party, while the Front Benches of both other parties were vehemently in favour. Now we have a situation where great unhappiness has been expressed from the Back Benches of all three parties and the Front Benches of two.
I am sure that we shall have an interesting Committee stage on the Bill, although not nearly enough time has been allocated to debate the legislation—unless we are to sit until five or six o'clock in the morning. That goes against what the House wants to do and against what it does at all well. Noble Lords want to be able to consider sensibly matters that arise in Committee which were not debated carefully in another place. We need time to be able to do so. We need quite a long Committee stage. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, who is not in his place at the moment, commented that he would be away for part of the time, a matter which he very much regretted. I know the noble Lord to be a very truthful man, but although I, too, am going to be away, I do not regret it at all. I am rather glad that I shall not be in the House for those long sittings.
Perhaps I may mention a few of the issues that will need to be considered with great care in Committee. I turn first to the imposition of unworkable time limits. It is proposed that the paper application to the High Court be made within 10 days. That is much too short a period. Similarly, there is to be the imposition of costs sanctions, which will make it increasingly difficult to secure representation, as well as deterring practitioners from challenging the often erratic processes of adjudicators.
The Government have proposed a vast array of costs powers to be conferred on adjudicators and the Immigration Appeal Tribunal, with the objective of
deterring appeals lodged against Home Office decisions. The powers are unnecessary as "quality control" in public-funded cases is already maintained by the Legal Services Commission and, additionally, the office of the Immigration Services Commissioner, the Law Society and the General Council of the Bar. All those institutions have oversight in these matters.The proposals are a crude mechanism to make it increasingly difficult to get representation. This will be the inevitable consequence if representatives prove reluctant to argue an asylum seeker's case for fear of personal sanction. The reality is that most cases, win or lose, depend on an adjudicator's view of credibility. It is the duty of adjudicators, not advocates, to decide whether an asylum seeker's evidence is credible. It cannot be right to penalise those representing asylum seekers in such circumstances, not least when no parallel sanctions are proposed to deal with the Home Office's time wasting and inefficiency.
The rebranding of detention centres as removal centres obviously must be looked at very carefully. It is not a encouragement to people who are relying on British justice to be moved from a reception centre to an establishment which is actually called a "removal" centre before any decisions have been made.
The repeal of automatic bail hearings is a nasty, retrograde step. The provision for automatic bail hearings after seven and 35 days set out in Part III of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 would have provided some safeguards against indefinite detention resulting from administrative and procedural delays and errors. This is a requirement under Article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights. The Government accepted the need for automatic bail hearings in 1999 but the legislation was never implemented.
The current Bill suggests no alternative safeguards to those contained within Part III. This is alarming because the rights to apply for bail under existing legislation are inadequate and significant numbers of detainees do not have any access to the bail procedure currently available. We estimate that this affects some 60 per cent of those people who contact us for assistance.
Inadequacies in the rights to apply for bail under existing legislation are a problem. The merits test requires legal representatives to assess the potential for success. If they believe that there is a less than 50 per cent chance of success, they are prohibited from employing public funds to represent their clients in bail applications. The chances of success are often perceived to be less than 50 per cent, in many cases due to the requirement for sureties.
The White Paper, Secure Borders, Safe Haven, endorses the policy of detaining children in asylum-seeking families prior to removal and raises the option of detention in other circumstances. The Government have not said on what basis they deem this practice to be proportionate or necessary. The detention of children is incompatible with the principles of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. I add my voice very strongly to those who are
arguing for the right of children to be educated in mainstream schools in this country. This is often not only very good for the children, of whom we must think, but, as we have heard from the various schools which have testified on this issue, it is often very good for the schools themselves.There are a very large number of issues involved. It will take us a long time to amend the Bill. I trust that we shall be able to do it. I hope that the Government will face up to the problems and help us with it. On the whole, I have not found the Government to be unreasonable when one makes a serious case for changing things. If they wish the Bill to go through containing most of the measures that they want, they will have to meet the objections put forward by people who are considerably more qualified than I.
I do not believe that this is a good Bill. It has one or two good points but, basically, it needs so much amendment that we might as well start from the beginning again. I shall do my bit in the demolition that will be necessary before we can start rebuilding
7.34 p.m.
Lord Greaves: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, referred to the Commonwealth Immigrants Bill 1968—the Kenyan Asians Bill. I remember catching the train from Manchester to join a demonstration in London against that measure. I remember marching side by side that day with Mr Peter Hain, who seems to be on the other side now. When I look at the present new Labour Government, I am not sure whether we who still believe what we believed 30 years ago are dinosaurs or men and women of principle. I suppose you choose which you think you are according to the position you hold.
It is true that these issues come back to haunt us time and time again. This being your Lordships' House, we shall have a civilised, rational debate about them and we will find noble Lords on the Government Front Bench being both civilised and rational. But we have to look at the overall political background from which this legislation is brought forward and at the moves taking place throughout Europe on immigration and asylum.
Throughout Europe, democratic politicians are running scared at what they perceive as the rise of the populist right. Some of its views are populist; some are downright racist; some are overtly fascist. The view is being put forward that, in order to counter the threat of these people—it is a very serious threat—we have to adopt sufficient of their policies, agenda and rhetoric to counter their challenge.
However, there are those of us who believe that this is a fundamentally flawed strategy. If one is fighting fascists and racists—which many of them are—or merely fighting the right-wing tabloid populism of the Daily Mail and the Daily Express in this country, the way to do it is to stand up and to argue rationally with them, to challenge them, to take on their argument, and to put forward rational and sensible policies. We should not assume that if this is what the focus group
says, this is what we have to do. There are times when politicians have to provide leadership and educate the focus groups instead of simply listening to them.For several years we have seen within Europe the tabloids, followed by the BBC and politicians, talking up the problem of asylum seekers. Not only is this issue being raised to a level completely out of context to the real problem, it is also distorting the argument about much more serious immigration problems, particularly the issues of people being brought into this country in bondage and being used as women prostitutes, child prostitutes, domestic slaves and in other ways which mean that they have no control of their own destiny.
At the same time, we have politicians raising expectations of what they will do as a short-term response to the public debate. We saw this at Seville. A week ago we were being told that the British Government would achieve this and achieve that. Now it turns out that they may have achieved about a quarter of it if they are lucky. There is a failure of political leadership which must be addressed. If it is not addressed, shifting onto the right-wing ground will not succeed.
But what do we see? We see the Home Secretary, Mr Blunkett, using a word which 20 or 30 years ago would have horrified everyone in democratic politics. He referred to schools being "swamped" by the children of asylum seekers. There may well be problems at a few schools in some inner cities, but no more than that. If there are such problems, it is the duty of all politicians not to use that kind of emotive language. It will only end up on the front page of the tabloids under banner headlines.
The Home Secretary puts forward proposals which may intrinsically be a good idea—for example, the idea that those who come to this country ought to learn sufficient English to be able to live and operate in this country. That is a perfectly sensible idea. Yet it was presented in such a way—it was done, as usual, through the "Today" programme—that it was seen as apportioning blame to those who did not have sufficient English in terms of the problems that had been occurring. Since we are basically talking about immigrant communities, particularly Muslim immigrant communities, immediately the link is made to the riots in Bradford, the disturbances in Birmingham, and so on.
The proposals for citizenship classes may well be sensible. But let us have a sensible debate about what such classes should consist of, and what British citizenship consists of in this modern era. Let us have a debate about the wording of the oath which it is suggested will be administered. Let us talk about what kind of oath it ought to be in a modern, democratic, multicultural society. Is it just one-sided, or are we saying that in a genuine multicultural society there have to be shifts of view on all sides?
The way in which the debate on arranged marriages has taken place has been an absolute disgrace. There is a perfectly sensible debate to be had—for example, whether a young Asian lass in Burnley should marry someone in Burnley or take a husband from the
Punjab. That debate is taking place in a large number of Asian families and within the Asian community generally. But the way in which it was launched on the country was again a matter of blame. The approach was: here is a practice that is wrong and the blame for this lies with the Asian community; therefore, that is part of the reason why multiculturalism and integration are not working and why we have riots. That is the argument that comes across to people. It continues to be a blame culture, and many good ideas which could be debated in a sensible way are harmed.This week, in relation to the meeting in Seville, the Foreign Secretary has spoken of "inoculating" Europe against the rise of the far right. That is a particularly unfortunate phrase to use. Often, when you are inoculated against a disease, you are inoculated with a mild or benign version of it, a non-toxic version, in order to ward off a worse version. There are no benign versions of racism and fascism. There are some things against which we must stand up and fight. They must be argued against in a sensible and rational way. You do not inoculate yourself against racism by taking in a small amount of racism yourself.
Therefore, it seems to me that the nature of the debate is wrong. The result—as we saw in the recent MORI opinion poll, which received a great deal of publicity—is that people associate the term "asylum seeker" with the term "illegal immigrant". The characteristics that they most associate with asylum seekers can be summed up in the words "desperate", "bogus" and "scroungers". Yet we know that of the people who come to this country and apply for asylum, about 45 to 50 per cent are eventually given permission to stay; about half are not bogus or scroungers—although some may be desperate. Even under what some of us consider to be a less than perfect system for assessing applications, they are being allowed to stay. Yet the same opinion poll suggests that people in this country think that we have a quarter of the world's refugees here. In fact, we have far fewer than many countries—Pakistan, for example. The truth is that we might have about 2 per cent.
It all comes back to an intellectual flaw, a schism, at the very heart of this country's policy, and that of all European countries, on asylum seeking. On the one hand the policy is: keep them out at all costs; do everything possible to keep them out; send EWS to the knacker's yard to keep them out; do whatever it is—and yet, once they manage to get here, despite all our efforts, we have to treat them in a civilised and decent way—I believe those were the words of the Leader of the House earlier today.
Putting it politely and mildly, there is a paradox at the heart of our policy. Unless and until that is sorted out, tackled and solved, all the other measures in the world simply will not work. People will keep finding ways to come here, and the Government will keep trying to find ways to stop them coming here; and, once they are here, we shall have to deal with their applications.
I want to cover two brief points relating to the problems in the present operation of the asylum system. In my judgment—based on personal experience and on the experience of others—the National Asylum Support Service is as incompetent and inefficient as it has been since it was first set up. It has been operating for two years. Some parts of it may have improved, but others have got worse.
We still have instances in which a local authority—for example, Salford—does its best to come to arrangements with NASS as to the particular language group, ethnicity and nationality of those who will join its cluster. It will expect a bus carrying a particular national group, a particular language group. When people eventually turn up, they are completely different. That is typical. There are still many cases of people from the north of England being sent to Croydon for interview; at the same time, people in the south of England are being sent to Liverpool for interview. That is still happening. There is no sense in it.
We still have accommodation providers giving a far from adequate service. They are not supervised properly. They are getting away with murder and making big profits. Some of the accommodation providers in Lancashire which started out very badly—for example, Clearsprings received a great deal of bad publicity—are now doing quite well. They have got their act together and are employing people on the ground and are doing quite well. Another group, the Adelphi Hotels, from Hove, are probably worse than ever. All the local people would happily get rid of them.
The problem is that NASS has no grip on the situation and no control. It still has only one person in the North West. For three years, that person has had to carry out three different functions—struggling to keep control of the situation in the North West while everyone else, 300 or 400 staff, are based at the headquarters in Croydon. I believe that dispersal can work, but if it is to work NASS has to decentralise and has to base its staff in regions where this is happening.
My second point was made also by the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, who is not in his place. It relates to the processing of claims and the system under which people's claims are being assessed. The quality of the decision-making leaves an enormous amount to be desired. I do not have a great deal of direct personal experience of accompanying people to interviews at the offices at Croydon, but I know that it is a horrific experience. Anyone who knows a group of asylum seekers and who has followed their fortunes over the past couple of years will know that the decision-making is erratic, to put it mildly. You wonder how on earth some people have got refugee status, whereas other people who clearly have a well-founded fear of persecution and all the rest of it struggle and struggle and then disappear somewhere in this country at the end of the process because they dare not go back. The whole process is inefficient. It does not work properly. The quality of decision-making is not very good. I join
all those who say that if we want a system that will work and will happen quickly, improving the quality of decision-making must be top of the agenda.7.50 p.m.
Lord Ahmed: My Lords, the Government have taken many brave and wise actions to tackle immigration. The move to abolish the primary purpose rule when Labour first came to power has helped to reunite thousands of families, which would not have been possible under the previous government. Another courageous decision was to accept that the voucher system was not appropriate, because of the associated stigmatising and the difficulties caused. I am pleased that the Government have got rid of the voucher system.
I welcome the White Paper, Secure Borders, Safe Haven, which emphasises the importance of identifying human smugglers. Many illegal immigrants invest all they have in coming to this country in horrific conditions. While human traffickers get richer, the number of fatal accidents is increasing. That is a growing concern for the freight industry, referred to earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, as well as for the country in general.
When discussing these matters, we parliamentarians and the media must take care not to use negative language that harms race relations in this country. Terms such as "bogus claims" do not help the good cause of providing shelter for many genuine refugees. More importantly, they are affecting society in general. People do not differentiate between third generation British citizens from ethnic minorities and those who have more recently entered the country. The Sunday Times reported the head of the Crown Prosecution Service as saying that British society is racist. I disagree with him and hope that he will sort out the CPS rather than adjudicating on the nation.
The majority of British people are still largely seen as hospitable, kind and caring towards people, without prejudice. There are thousands of examples of people who came to this country not speaking a word of English and have gone on to take great pride in considering themselves to be British. This was instilled in them not through an oath of allegiance or any other form of ceremony or forced indoctrination, but through the compassion and warmth that the people of this country bestowed on them, regardless of their ethnic origin. A sense of belonging can come from being included fairly into the practices of society. My mother has lived in this country for many years. I would not expect her to go and learn English to prove that she lives here. She has chosen this country as her home. This decision has not been made because of a ceremony or courses that she may have attended on arrival in the United Kingdom. Will my noble friend the Minister tell us what provision is made for the many uneducated parents of British citizens who have the right to join their family and who cannot speak English?
I feel proud to know that I live in one of the most tolerant countries in the world, which leads the global community in accepting people without prejudice.
I am delighted that my noble friend the Minister referred to that earlier. It is important that we British citizens realise that these new citizens have different cultures. We should welcome the added diversity that these people will bring. However, I fear that we will be posing as hypocrites by not practising what we preach if certain parts of the Bill are not amended.Another point to consider is the position of women who are placed in accommodation centres with predominantly young, single males. Many of these single women, single parents and widows may find themselves sitting targets for physical and sexual abuse. How will they seek help from abusive partners who have been detained in the same centre? The Immigration Appellate Authority's asylum gender guidelines highlight the fact that women already face particular difficulties in making their cases to the authorities, especially when they have had experiences that are difficult and painful to describe, let alone to prove. Many activities will be in communal areas and there may be cultural clashes in an already tense atmosphere. I urge the Government to reconsider their plans.
I understand that the Immigration Law Practitioners' Association welcomes accommodation centres as an alternative to detention centres, but believes that integration should begin on arrival. The Refugee Council says that a six-month period risks leading to institutionalisation and dependency. There are also widespread concerns about the proposed size of these accommodation centres. I hope that the Government will take these points into consideration.
The most important change in the Bill is in relation to education. I am concerned about the Government's proposals to educate asylum-seeking children separately from other children and outside the framework and standards of LEAs and the national curriculum. I believe that the clauses concerning education should be removed, as they are not compatible with the customs and norms of British society. I am sure that the Government could provide help for schools. Section 11 has been important for many schools with children from new Commonwealth countries.
This discrimination in access to the right of education will have adverse effects not only on the education of asylum-seeking children, but also on their integration into British society. Before their arrival in the UK, refugee children have experienced the kind of trauma that even we as grown adults would find difficult to overcome. They need to lead a normal life, within a free society. Noble Lords have referred to this point earlier.
Article 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child states that children have the right to education,
- "on the basis of equal opportunity".
Britain is a multi-racial community. Both asylum seekers and local children can benefit from the integration of cultures and races. Asylum-seeker children can educate local children in the important life lessons of understanding, tolerance and harmony, which can not always be taught from text books, by explaining what it is like to be persecuted. British children should feel proud that they belong to a country that is seen as a sanctuary.
Another important matter that I should like the Government to consider is amending the British Nationality Act 1981. I have a particular concern about certificates of entitlement to the right of abode for a Commonwealth citizen who is married to a British citizen. Under the present arrangement, a Commonwealth citizen claiming the right of abode must satisfy the authorities that, immediately before the commencement of the British Nationality Act 1981, he or she was a Commonwealth citizen. That particularly applies to Pakistanis and to a limited number of South Africans. In the case of Pakistanis, the right that people had had from birth until Pakistan's brief departure from the Commonwealth was taken away from them for good in 1983. The immigration appeals service has found that that is an unfair breach of legitimate expectations and I hope that the Government will amend the law to ensure that women from Pakistan married to British citizens at any time before 1st January 1983 are given the right of abode.
Finally, Britain has been home to many communities seeking asylum from persecution. Those people have brought a wealth of knowledge and expertise with them. Life is harder for today's refugees. They come here to start a new life and we should not begrudge others the opportunities. It is important that our policies should not leave any group to be seen to be posing as impostors; rather, they should show that those people are human beings with feelings who need to be embraced into our community and not left isolated.
8.1 p.m.
The Lord Bishop of St Albans: My Lords, it is clear that, whether one is in favour of completely free movement or of some kind of control, immigration and asylum represent one of the most difficult issues facing our country and western Europe. The diocese of which I have the privilege to be bishop—the diocese of St Albans—has close and growing links with three Roman Catholic dioceses in Italy: Pesaro, Urbino and Fano on the Adriatic coast. I have seen at first hand the remarkable work that those dioceses are doing in trying to provide social, pastoral and spiritual care to
immigrants and asylum seekers. One only has to go to Loreto and look over the Adriatic across to the Balkan coast to realise how difficult it is to control, if one wishes to, the flow of immigrants. Those dioceses are now pushed to their limits in trying to cope.In light of the earlier Statement on Seville, it would be enormously encouraging if the work of churches, faith communities and voluntary organisations throughout Europe on matters relating to immigration could be given a heightened role and due recognition. In saying that, I echo all that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said. He spoke up strongly and rightly for the role of voluntary organisations in this field.
It would be helpful in this debate if we saw the Bill not entirely through adult eyes but through the eyes of the children involved. Many of them have been uprooted from their own communities and taken vast distances, often in terrible conditions, and find themselves in a strange land. Physically, and spiritually, too, many are at risk. Many children have undergone traumas that might well scar them for life unless they receive appropriate and loving attention. The giving of attention to such children is of enormous significance. I echo much of what was said by the noble Lords, Lord Beaumont of Whitley and Lord Ahmed.
The proposal that those children should be educated for the time being in dispersed accommodation centres is bureaucratically understandable, although it raises huge questions. The noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, has already referred to that. Are Her Majesty's Government able to give any assurance that the spiritual and emotional needs of children will be taken seriously if they are sent to accommodation centres? If such centres will exist, will the teachers who are employed to look after those children receive significant training to ensure that the educational needs of those children are understood and met? Further, will chaplains representing all faith communities in our country be appointed to accommodation centres as part of what the Minister referred to as "essential services"? If the spiritual care of those children is not essential, I would dearly love to know what is. If chaplains are to be appointed, will they be given training and ongoing supervision? If they will not be appointed, why not? Would it not be a very serious infringement of the human rights of asylum-seeking children simply to have their spiritual well-being ignored?
Imagine yourself as one of the children in one of those centres and virtually unable to leave it. I commend to the House a most lovely children's novel published back in the 1970s called I am David by a Danish author, Anne Holm. It is a story of a child escaping from an internment camp in World War II who makes his way northwards to his home. He encounters beauty on that journey—a beauty that he met for the first time—and it brings a surge of joy to his heart.
I do not wish to appear sentimental but if the criterion of beauty is applied to the care of asylum-seeking children, will the clauses in the Bill stand up to such a test? I do not speak of beauty in a simple
aesthetic sense; I refer to that kind of beauty that encompasses truth and ensures our profound well-being as human beings. That concept of course has to be fleshed out in good and just practice. Is it truly the case that placing traumatised children in accommodation centres will be in their best interests? Will normal child welfare provisions be put in place for them, in line with the Children Act or the Care Standards Act? Who will be their advocates? Who will given them a voice? And who will ensure that their deeply spiritual needs as children are seriously met?I am very aware that such questions are easier to raise than to answer. I have the most serious sympathy and profound respect for all those who are trying to cope, not least the Minister, who is carrying an enormous burden. I hope that he will not mind my saying that our thoughts and, if I may say so, our prayers are with him as he tries to wrestle with the realities of this situation. If we could view the Bill through the eyes of a refugee child and frame our legislation accordingly, we might find that our understanding of justice would be broadened and deepened and that our claim to be civilised as a nation would be further enhanced.
I turn to accommodation centres. I know that there is a distinction between removal centres and accommodation centres. In my diocese, there is a place called Yarl's Wood. I very much hope that we shall learn from the experience of such a place. I hope we shall learn that, both in preparing people for arrival at such centres and in helping with friendship and advocacy when they do, the role of voluntary organisations and faith communities will be taken with due seriousness. I hope, too, that the role of chaplaincy of all faith communities inside those centres, and the role of religious leaders of all faith communities outside, will also be given proper respect. Can we be assured that issues such as safety and fire risk in places which are bound by their nature to be emotionally volatile will be taken seriously?
Therefore, I ask the Government to assure not only this House but the local receiving communities that the lessons learnt from Yarl's Wood and other detention centres will, where appropriate, be applied to the accommodation centres which are being proposed. But, above all, it is my most earnest hope that we see those centres through the eyes of children. I hope that we look at the Bill and ask whether the centres will be in the best interests of the children, who will be the future citizens of our country and the world, and therefore whether the Bill stands up to proper moral scrutiny.
8.11 p.m.
Lord Borrie: My Lords, Integration with diversity in modern Britain was the sub-title of the Government's White Paper published in February. Diversity of colour and ethnic origin is, of course, common in many, although not all, parts of Britain today. Indeed, because there are still some parts of Britain where someone who is visually different is a rarity, the
diversity of background in London and in many of our major cities is even more noticeable than if diversity were spread more evenly through the country.The idea that the United Kingdom benefits from diversity, as mentioned many times this afternoon, is becoming more widely accepted throughout the United Kingdom. I say that tentatively because we know that there are exceptions. But it is a relatively new concept that those who want to stay here permanently, particularly if they seek naturalisation as a British citizen, should be expected to make positive efforts to fit themselves for integration with the host community. What does "integration" mean in that context? Clearly it does not mean that the British citizen should transform himself into a caricature of a Scot or an Englishman, complete with bagpipes or furled umbrella, let alone that he should join, if I may say so to the right reverend Prelate, the established Church or shout for England in the World Cup.
It is possible to raise some cynical eyes at the requirements in the Bill for a sufficient knowledge of the English language and of life in the United Kingdom. It may even be a source of fun for the Government to suggest that there should be citizenship ceremonies, oaths and pledges. But I take it seriously, as it deserves, that if people are to live in close proximity in our towns and cities in peace and harmony, despite their varied ethnic or religious backgrounds—whether we like it or not, that basis of difference does cause difficulty for some people—they must share some values and attitudes to human rights. That includes acceptance of the rights of other diverse groups to live here as well.
New British citizens must be tolerant of other new British citizens. Of course, as the host country, we take it for granted that we must continue with our well-established policies to combat race discrimination. Perhaps we need to cover religious discrimination as well. But everyone, with few exceptions, who seeks British citizenship needs to acquire a good knowledge of our language, our common values of regard for others, the basic United Nations charter freedoms and our democratic institutions. I say "with few exceptions" to my noble friend Lord Ahmed because Clause 1 of the Bill, which refers to knowledge of the English language, allows for exceptions to be made under, I believe, a "waiver" from the Secretary of State. However, as a general principle, I believe that we should welcome the requirements for British citizenship. Personally, I welcome the thoughts expressed in the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, earlier this afternoon.
As the White Paper puts it, new citizens need to be "committed" to British society. The Government have rightly placed an emphasis on promoting language proficiency and education for citizenship and on celebrating—I like that word—the acquisition of citizenship. I agree with all that, but I believe that we need to insist on an obligation on those who seek citizenship to qualify in those tests. I do not consider that the provision in the British Nationality Act 1981 about having a sufficient command of English was really enforced. But, when I listened to last
Wednesday's debate on the Unstarred Question of the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, I noticed that the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, said—I quote it tonight because I believe that it is apt, concise and neat—that,
- "knowledge of English is the key to employability and integration into society".—[Official Report, 18/6/02; col. 715.]
When Mr Kenneth Baker—now the noble Lord, Lord Baker of Dorking—introduced an asylum Bill in 1991, he said that that Bill had three main purposes. One was to accelerate the process of immigration control to cope with the growth in the number of asylum seekers; the second was to deal with—he used these words—the "great misuse" of asylum procedures; and the third was to extend rights of appeal. I have a feeling that the Minister, my noble friend Lord Filkin, may feel that some of his introduction today was on rather similar lines. It is certainly not the Minister's fault that, 10 or 11 years on, a Minister is having to say the same kind of thing.
As we all know, over the centuries this country has had a very good record generally on taking in those who may suffer from persecution, danger and torture in their own countries and who seek asylum here. Of course, it is in part because of that good record that many who are not genuine refugees, and who seek to improve their economic position, should try to enter by the asylum route. We all know the huge pressure that 70,000 plus applicants a year cause to our immigration services.
This country has various programmes for managed migration, especially the work permit scheme, from which my noble friend Lord Desai seemed to benefit years ago, and I am very glad that he did. However, he made the point that such programmes are important not only for skilled and professional people who come through these routes; there may well be need, and value, at particular times, including now, for unskilled people to come as well. Of course, if people are not skilled or professional and if, unfortunately, they pretend to seek refuge and to be genuine refugees, then they may encounter difficulties. But I suggest to the Minister that we want economic migrants, many of whom are welcome, and we want refugees who are genuine, and we want them admitted with reasonable speed. We also want those who are not welcome in either capacity to be dealt with speedily and fairly and then to be removed.
No one is likely to suggest, and no one has suggested today, that, in the words of the noble Lord, Lord Judd, we have an "open door" policy. No one wants that but we need reasonable, humane, fair and proper procedures. I quoted the words spoken by the noble Lord, Lord Baker of Dorking, 10 years ago, which were similar to the words of the Minister today. I accept that we need to balance the fairness to applicants against the need to prevent abuse by those who are delaying by making multiple adjournments or in some other way. We cannot permit to go unchecked
the exploitation of what are the essentially fair and tolerant procedures which we have, whether such exploitation is by applicants, their agents or advisers.It is exceedingly difficult to achieve the right balance. No doubt we shall have considerable debate in Committee on such provisions as have been mentioned today by the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, and others. I refer, for example, to Clause 84, which precludes an appeal where the Home Secretary certifies that the appeal is sought simply to delay removal from the UK. The Law Society has expressed concern about Clause 84 and about the substitution in Clause 89 of a statutory right of appeal on a point of law from the Immigration Appeal Tribunal for normal judicial review. It does not like this statutory right of appeal because it is to a single judge and because no oral argument is allowed. Nor does the Law Society like the provision in Clause 82 for removal of asylum seekers, whose cases are "clearly unfounded", to a safe country, and the fact that any appeal has to be made from outside the UK. They may be Committee points, but my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws made several valid, pragmatic and practical points on that score.
I shall not make any Committee points today. At present, the Law Society puts forward some good arguments. However, it does not do the balancing act. It does not balance the points it makes against the need to combat the abuse and delaying tactics of some asylum seekers. I would also say—this is my final word to the Minister—that I am not sure that the Home Office has made sufficient argument and chapter and verse of the events of the past 10 or 20 years to demonstrate the sufficiency of abuse to justify radically different procedures from the sort of fair procedure points put forward earlier today by what I might call the human rights lawyers such as my noble friend Lady Kennedy and the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill. We look forward to the Minister dealing with such points, if not today certainly in Committee when we debate those clauses concerning appeal.
8.23 p.m.
Lord Mayhew of Twysden: My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Borrie. He referred to one of the predecessor Bills to that we are debating today—the Bill introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Baker, in 1991. The noble Lord referred to that as extending rights of appeal, among other things. He said that the Minister replying to the debate might reflect ruefully upon its similarity to the present Bill and the introduction he made. I am not sure that that is a valid point as regards extending rights of appeal. The significant part of this Bill is intended to restrict rights of appeal. That is a point to which I hope to return and echo something of what has been said by noble Lords.
I welcome the Government's determination to grapple yet again with the problems arising from the extraordinarily difficult issue of asylum. I am sorry to speak a little harshly. There is nothing personal in what I am about to say to the Minister. I deplore with
equal fervour what I can only describe as the autocratic and dictatorial action of the Government in declining to allow substantial and important parts of the Bill even to be discussed in the other place. I listened to what was said by the Minister when that point was put to him in an intervention. His explanation—for which he had no responsibility—was that the Government had been listening and chose to introduce important amendments at a late stage. There is a perfectly proper and practical procedure for dealing with those circumstances. The Government should change the business, go back to Standing Committee stage and have those matters debated. I would have been ashamed of resorting to a guillotine Motion to secure the avoidance of any debate in those circumstances. I hope that the Minister will find time to add to his explanation of why the other place was given no opportunity to discuss important matters, leaving this House with the task of scrutinising them all the more carefully.I share the view which the Government espouse along with everyone who has spoken that amid all the pressures generated by the extraordinary flow of people seeking asylum we must not forget the benefit that the reception of asylum seekers has brought to our country in past years. One or two moving illustrations have been given in the course of the debate. We must not forget that the same experience may well and in all probability will fall to us in future years. However, I agree with the Minister that we have to manage the asylum scene, and so we do.
The key to successful management can be found in two concepts. The first is justice and the second practicality. I believe that properly understood it will be seen that those two complement each other and do not conflict. Current and recurring pressures on our system bring high risks of injustice. First, there is injustice to asylum seekers if their claims are not dealt with expeditiously, which means legal advice being made available to them at the earliest opportunity; in practice, when they are accommodated, if they are, in the new accommodation centres. That is essential in terms of justice. The second area of injustice is to the taxpayer, the ordinary citizens of this country, if the system has such manifest deficiencies that the burden of supporting and supervising asylum seekers once here has to be carried unnecessarily month after month and sometimes year after year.
To add to that, the arrival of some 750 increasingly disaffected asylum seekers in accommodation centres proposed to be set up in rural areas with, I believe, a capacity of some 3,000, may well have a disruptive and, to put it no higher, expensive effect.
As regards injustice to applicants, we must never forget our duty or tradition of fairness. If we do that we undermine something essential to our tradition, to our history and to the moral basis of our government and our state. Our immigration law is now extremely complex and detailed. The Bill should not simply empower legal advice to be provided in the accommodation centres; it should be made a duty so that applicants know as early as practicable where they may stand and are not misled, as so many have been,
into believing that the longer they stay in limbo the greater their chances ultimately of being allowed to stay for good. Legal advice, if enough people are to be available to give it when it is most needed—that is, early—will cost a lot of money. But it will save the cost of unnecessary, protracted accommodation further down the line. The Treasury must look further than the immediate bottom line on the first page of the papers.Early determination is not only our duty to applicants; it is economically advantageous in one other respect. If it is properly provided and properly funded, it will allow for co-located appeal machinery. My noble friend Lady Anelay of St Johns referred to the one-stop shop in what was rightly described as a "powerful speech". The one-stop shop must be the ideal. I see no indication in this Bill that the Government share that ideal. The key to it is enough money to provide for the whole legal machinery—advice, decision and appeal—in the same place and within a short time of each other.
In opening, the Minister referred to bringing clarity to the position of local authorities. He said that the Government wanted to ease the pressures upon them. Perhaps I may be allowed to make a specific point at this time, if not a Committee point. It is extremely important that local authorities should have the pressures upon them eased, none more so than those which provide the gateways for persons seeking asylum or immigration in other respects.
For 23 years I represented a Kent constituency. I continue to live in it and therefore know something of the pressures that Kent County Council sustains. The Home Office provides grants to local authorities who, once they have received asylum seekers, place them with other local authorities, as they are not only allowed to do but are obliged to do if they do not have the resources, whether of cash or accommodation, to deal with them. In the case of Kent, absence of accommodation resources obliges the council to place elsewhere all children over 17. There are 750 of them in this country at the present time who came in through Kent. However, Kent remains responsible for them simply because Kent was their gateway into the United Kingdom and the grant is on a reimbursement basis only.
Perhaps the noble Lord can find time to deal with this point, if not tonight, then later in writing. Only last week I am told the Home Office gave notice that the administration costs undertaken by councils will no longer be eligible for grant. What can be the justification for that unless it is Treasury parsimony, insisting on targets of savings? Two changes are needed: first, the reversal of that decision; secondly, the receiving authority, when a child is placed outside the gateway area, assuming responsibility for the child.
I fear I have talked too long, but I want to make a point once more about justice, Clause 89 and judicial review. I believe the Minister will be able to answer this point because he had some notice of it. What are the possible circumstances in which the Lord Chancellor might wish to repeal the provisions in Clause 89 which themselves provide only for a curtailed right of appeal
from the decision of an immigration tribunal? It is an extraordinary proposal. Here is a curtailment of the right to judicial review on a point of law only, and then in subsection (4) we see the provision that the Lord Chancellor may, by order—albeit by affirmative resolution—repeal those provisions. What are the possible circumstances that might lead him to do that and why is that included in the Bill at all?I conclude with a general point based upon this factor. All governments seem to suffer from fatal inroads into the immune system that normally protects them against the charms of florid, executive autocracy when it comes to considering judicial review. All governments, in my experience, are outraged by judicial review, and their very outrage is itself a measure of its importance to the rule of law.
Clause 89 curtails the right to judicial review when it should not. In my view, in subsection (4), the Government propose a power for the Lord Chancellor to take away something he should never contemplate taking away? Why? We are not told and I hope that the Minister can answer. The reason is that precedents have a horrid way of being followed. If we do nothing else in the subsequent stages of this Bill, I trust that we shall get rid of subsection (4).
8.36 p.m.
The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, this is the third Bill in seven years in which I have taken part, so I feel I can welcome the Minister and the noble Baronesses, Lady Anelay and Lady Ludford, to this debate. I am relieved that the political climate has improved and that this time there is much more consensus. Confrontation seems to have given way to a degree of contrition because so many mistakes have been made by both governments.
The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, fairly and firmly reminded us of some of the Labour Government's U-turns. At the same time we appreciate that a huge effort has been made in the IND to reduce the backlog accumulated under the Tories. I doubt whether a Liberal Democrat government could have done much better because events move so quickly and much law is being made on the hoof, as we see in this Bill.
However, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, and the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, said, there was too little time for consultation on the White Paper and many of the concerns of the voluntary organisations have been wholly ignored. Some clauses were introduced at the last moment and were hardly discussed at all in the Commons.
The Government's response to questions from the Human Rights Joint Committee came so late that its report could be published only last Friday, missing the Commons stages altogether, which makes scrutiny in this House exceptionally important. The Joint Committee is to be commended on bringing out a report of such quality.
Many of us who wish to amend the Bill—for example, where it fails to recognise the rights of asylum seekers in accommodation centres, and in later clauses
on detention or removal—will be grateful for this rigorous scrutiny of every clause in the light of the ECHR and the convention, which partly makes up for the lack of attention in the Commons and ensures that we shall be able to do our duty in Committee.As always, there is considerable public alarm about the number of applicants and reasons for asylum, much of it ill-informed as a recent survey showed. It is important to see our asylum seekers in perspective, especially against the wider European background.
In this island we tend to forget the vast tides of migration which have occurred in Europe since the last war and even in the last decade. I have been reading Neal Ascherson's account of the Greek diaspora and the return of the surviving Pontine Greeks from their ex-Soviet Black Sea settlements, some of which go back to the time of Herodotus, which seems to put this into perspective. The poorest countries always seem to carry the heaviest responsibilities for crises, usually not of their making. I believe that the EU countries should help to address this problem. Equally, it should not all fall on the shoulders of the Pas de Calais and Kent.
Surely it is time for all of us to look outwards and recognise that the world moves on and that our asylum seekers, let alone our recognised refugees, are a tiny fraction of the 12 million received elsewhere. What is different is that we are among those states that are proud of setting high standards of reception and processing and we must not let those standards drop because of our own legislative failures.
Spain did well to put this subject at the top of the agenda at Seville, and it was unfortunate that aid conditionality became an issue, or to my mind a red herring. It is quite obvious that good governance, as a criterion of aid, is linked with asylum and migration, and the more we can do to work with and support countries of first asylum the more we shall be able to improve our asylum procedures. That will also help in the context of anti-terrorism.
We also need to persuade our EU neighbours that uniformed border patrols and management of external borders are really a defence mechanism and are not an adequate expression of a common asylum policy such as that agreed at Tampere. All the Home Office brief says on the matter is that negotiations are continuing on so many of the issues. We learn from the summit of last weekend that the common asylum system is, at last, slowly moving ahead on a common definition, on penalties and even on some integrated policies, although in some instances the UK will have to make progress on its own. The UN resettlement quota, which we discussed last week in Clause 50, is one example, and NGOs are genuinely pleased that the Government are determined to move forward on this. I have listened to the Minister in European Union Sub-Committee F and I have noticed that he wears a serene expression that suggests a liberal tendency, but it disguises a resolution not to give too much away too early. I shall watch this space!
In my view it will require a firmer unilateral move by the UK, along with Scandinavian countries, if we are to ensure that the EU as a whole develops a proper
policy of resettlement which will create a meaningful gateway for genuine refugees. I also welcome the highly skilled migrants scheme that was announced today and the plan for seasonal migrants. I welcome the efforts of the Department for International Development to improve conditions in countries of origin and the measures in Clause 126 against the trafficking of women and children. I say that as a board member of Christian Aid and a council member of Anti-Slavery International. That together with the new arrangements for voluntary departures in Clause 49 are areas of the Bill on which we can move forward.However, there are others where the Government are either wobbling or taking a distinctly backward step. The wobble is in the clauses on the pilot accommodation centres because the Government cannot decide what they are, or whether they will come into being. All the NGOs and local groups affected and consulted—for what that has been worth—say that they are far too large and that they would be better if they catered for 100 to 200 rather than 750. The whole concept is under attack, with the Refugee Council saying that the Government would do better to concentrate on improving their dispersal policy as those centres will cater for only one-tenth of asylum seekers. I strongly sympathise with that view.
As we have heard, there will be many amendments on the position of children. The Children's Consortium, especially Save the Children, is strongly opposed to children and families being included, arguing that that would be in breach of several articles of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. It says that there should be more induction centres to help children to recover from trauma and upheaval. Today we have heard that only one is now open, so that will take a long time. Other NGOs like Asylum Aid have real concerns about protection for single women, as has also been mentioned. Of course, there should be proper access to appropriate legal advice.
Clause 31 will be hotly contested as it removes the duties of LEAs towards children in accommodation centres. The Refugee Council and many others are concerned about separate education. Obviously, newly arrived children cannot go straight into mainstream schools and provision will depend on the average length of stay. NGOs are quite rightly sceptical after the past few years that governments will keep their word and limit the time that asylum seekers spend in such centres. One can sympathise with the noble Lord, Lord Desai, who mentioned the half-way house which, in practice, may mean half-way education. We cannot live with that concept.
There are parallel concerns about "residency restriction". NGOs are saying that under some clauses—Clause 23—non-compliance with regulations could affect their claims. Under Clauses 37 and 38 offers of accommodation will affect the rights of asylum seekers to support. In fact they would fail the basic eligibility test of destitution under the 1999 Act. I hope that the Minister will deny that today, although the citizens advice bureau and others are determined to have the clause deleted.
In Part 3 the amount of support will again be challenged as after the abolition of vouchers, there will still be imbalances in a system, which is a deterrent, deliberately weighted against asylum seekers, as the noble Lord, Lord Lester, mentioned. Also in Parts 4 and 5 the Government are taking backward steps. Many question the notion in Clause 56 that detention can simply become removal at the wave of a wand. The number of detainees is to rise steeply. Repeal of automatic bail hearings in Clause 57(6) has caused deep disappointment and frustration among professionals who work alongside detainees. I declare an interest as a patron of the Haslar Visitors Group.
The Government say that the old Part 3 of the 1999 Act is incompatible with streamlining, but law practitioners respond that people could now be detained for much longer periods—more than in the European Union. Unless they are heard at specified points during their detention, they can simply disappear. Thousands have now been detained without any automatic access to judicial oversight. As the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, said, some very young children have been among them.
Bail for Immigration Detainees has quoted the case of "D" who was detained with her 18-month old child pending removal. A judicial review was lodged but no bail application was made and the mother and child were released only on health grounds after spending four months in detention.
The statutory review provisions in Clauses 70(1) onwards have NGOs literally up in arms because they appear to be a betrayal of this Government's own dearly-held human rights policies. Many noble Lords have emphasised that point. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford was the first and we heard the crystal-clear view of the Human Rights Joint Committee, expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Lester, when he quoted paragraph 98 of its report.
As I understand it, the new procedure will mean that any appeal to the Immigration Appeal Tribunal in the UK against certification of "manifestly unfounded" cases will be refused and cannot be judicially reviewed. NGOs feel that that is a political move that runs against the principle of judicial review and that ironically it stems from the high success rate of appeals to date.
The alternative plan for appeals to be heard in a "safe" third country is seriously flawed, as mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy. For one thing, there is little likelihood of such appeals ever taking place. The Dublin convention has failed to stop "asylum shopping" and there is the definition of a "safe country". Zimbabwe was safe, but Zimbabwean asylum seekers could have been removed to face death or imprisonment if there had not been a public outcry. On the positive side, there is a Home Office proposal for an independent country information centre support by the Refugee Council which will certainly bring more confidence.
In conclusion, the Government are understandably trying to speed up the process of assessment, review and removal in response to strong, but misinformed,
public feeling. I recognise that there is a problem of common standards among legal practitioners which is being addressed. The present system is undoubtedly cumbersome and I have heard one judge call it "procedurally heavy". In that respect the suggestions of my noble friend Lord Hylton are valuable in relation to the importance of initial decisions. The Government cannot expect to streamline procedures without the due legal process that they themselves have championed in previous legislation. Like others, I look forward eagerly to the Government's response today and during Committee. It will need to be both convincing and of high quality.8.49 p.m.
Earl Attlee: My Lords, before speaking in the debate I should declare an interest as president of the Heavy Transport Association, patron of the Road Rescue Recovery Association and of course as being well briefed by other trade associations.
I suspect that I am singing from the same song sheet as the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. Unfortunately I missed part of his speech, but I know where he is coming from and I support him. My concerns centre around Clause 108 and Schedule 8 to the Bill and the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999. These provisions make a civil penalty against transport operators who inadvertently bring clandestine immigrants into the country.
I did not take part in the debates on the 1999 Act because I had other Front Bench duties at the time. But I believed then that either the 1999 Act was not ECHR-compliant, or ECHR was so badly drafted that the Government could call a fine a "civil penalty" and therefore avoid the difficulties of taking a case to court under the Immigration Act 1971.
Let us imagine that Mr Mugabe signed up to the equivalent of ECHR and then legislated against certain types of parasite on farms and that there was an automatic fixed civil penalty—that is, a fine—for every incident of parasite infection, and let us suppose that the fine was big enough to make the farmer bankrupt. I suspect that your Lordships would be growing extremely excited.
I accept that transport operators may not be loved by many, but everyone is happy to take consumer goods that are moved around Europe by trucks or by the trains of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. I believe that noble Lords are not concerned about transport operators, perhaps because transport operators—particularly road transport operators—are based in Barking, Dagenham, Dartford and Salford, and not Islington or even Norfolk.
I understand the problem. Once a bogus or clandestine immigrant lands in the UK he has succeeded in his objective. But I find it peculiar that we have recently amended service discipline in the Armed Forces and interfered with our system of summary jurisdiction because it was felt that it might be slightly non-ECHR compliant, yet we introduced the 1999 Act, which provides that when clandestine immigrants
are detected on a system of transport in the UK, the Secretary of State can impose a civil penalty—that is, a fine—of £2,000 per illegal immigrant. We are not talking about a £50 parking fine; it is £2,000 for each and every illegal immigrant. If there is an appeal, it is heard by the Secretary of State and the same group of officials is involved.I accept that the Bill makes some welcome improvements, largely as a result of recent litigation to which noble Lords have referred, but I shall be tabling several amendments; first, to specify that if an operator uses independent CO 2 screening facilities at a port he should be exempt from the civil penalty if clandestines still manage to enter the vehicle. Secondly, we must have an independent tribunal, preferably before imposing the civil penalty, but, failing that, it is essential to have a rapid independent appeal tribunal. Finally, as I explained, the basis on which the civil penalty is calculated is the number of clandestines detected and not the degree of negligence. I believe that that is wrong.
I shall leave my detailed arguments for Committee stage, but the Minister should be aware that the industry is deeply worried about this part of the Bill.
8.54 p.m.
Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, I am afraid that I shall disappoint the House because I am not going to talk about transport. My noble friend Lord Filkin has a reputation in this place for having a soft tongue. On this occasion I fear that he has to balance it with a hard stick. I plead with him not to be too hard tonight and on subsequent occasions. I compliment him on the fact that—as well deserved as it may be—he is on the Front Bench. He was there before, but now he is a real Minister and he has real power. He is going to offer us all sorts of opportunities on future occasions to change the Bill. I have every faith in him.
There can be no more sensitive issues in our political life than those raised by this Bill. I sense that this House is deeply troubled by what it sees. There has hardly been a speech in the debate in praise of the Bill. Many voices with real authority have been raised: the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, a former Attorney-General and Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, has been deeply troubled by what he has heard. My noble friend Lord Dubs, who was for a long time chief executive of the Refugee Council, of which I was chairman, is probably also deeply troubled.
Perhaps it is appropriate to say at the beginning of my contribution that my grandparents on both sides were refugees—or perhaps they may be termed economic migrants; that distinction was not made in the 19th century. They came here because they believed that they would be more welcome here than they were in their own country; the land of their birth. They also believed—perhaps they were being fanciful, I do not know—that they could change things and that their presence here, while not altogether welcomed by some, would be beneficial to the community.
Life here was certainly better than that to which they had become accustomed. Work was desperately hard. Life, particularly for the menfolk, was often very short. Both my grandfathers died in their forties. I did not know them. When I look back and span my years in the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as four years in the European Commission, I think of the good fortune that has smiled on me compared with them and I honour those who have been rather less fortunate than myself. Is so much for which my grandparents battled now to be forfeited? Is all this to be done by the new Labour Government?
Last Thursday was World Refugee Day. Millions of people have been rescued from persecution all over the world when they sought asylum in more benign countries. Those who reach out for a better way of life are entitled to be treated with dignity, even if they cannot be rewarded with a permanent right of abode. That was the burden of the intervention made by the Leader of the House earlier today. I earnestly hope that his words will be adhered to in practice. Therefore, I pray that we can conduct these debates with an understanding of the motives of those who seek refuge here and of those who seek to protect them.
I mention those facts because they undoubtedly colour my attitude towards the Bill. There are certain parts of the Bill which I find extremely realistic and beneficial and others which I find rather dangerous and therefore unacceptable.
I say in passing that it is not good enough that certain important provisions of the Bill were not considered by another place. I refer to major new changes which were made. I entirely agree with the proposition advanced by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, that the other place had the opportunity to consider them. Of course it may be that there ought to have been a re-commitment of the Bill. But, whatever the position, it will not be enough to fall from my noble friend's lips tonight that they did not have the chance. They did.
I turn to certain details of the Bill. Perhaps before I do that I ought to preface what I have to say by referring to the 330 representations which were made by various organisations in response to the Government. They were not even considered. It is an appalling slight upon my noble friends in the Government and in another place that that should happen. What do they think these organisations are for? Do they think that they are the enemies of the state? I cannot believe that. Their work is sometimes forsaken, but in the main it is advantageous to the people on whose behalf they speak out.
I believe, together with other noble Lords, that Clause 82 prevents an asylum seeker appealing against refusal of asylum by the Secretary of State while the asylum seeker is in the United Kingdom. That is unacceptable. Why should such a person be denied the right of appeal? Ordinary people charged with crime that I used to represent are entitled to be heard. Is an asylum seeker someone different—someone who is not entitled to exactly the same rights as an ordinary person charged with crime?
It means, in effect, that an asylum seeker who fears death, torture or persecution cannot have his or her case judicially considered. I believe there has been totally inadequate consideration of this draconian provision by another place.
What value can one place on a decision taken in a country where torture or persecution, or worse, is enabled to take place? Or, similarly, where an appeal takes place in a third country, can we be sure that the essential points of the appeal will always be taken? Will they always be entitled to retain the legal resources or welfare entitlements to pursue their appeal? Judicial oversight of these procedures is absolutely essential. Does anyone really and convincingly assert that all officials who deal with those cases are properly trained or supervised? Do they always comprehend what is going on in the countries from which the asylum seeker comes?
I turn to legal representation. A point made by a number of noble Lords tonight is that there is absolutely no provision in the Bill to ensure that an asylum seeker and his witnesses should be paid for the cost of travel to see his legal representatives for advice and for preparation of his case. It is plainly unsatisfactory that a publicly-funded solicitor should go to his client for a lengthy visit, which is the only alternative.
Are bail hearings no longer necessary to comply with the Human Rights Act? That was the clear advice given to and accepted by Her Majesty's Government in 1999. I say once more: why should asylum seekers be treated worse than persons accused of crime?
I turn to legal aid, or some form of legal funding to enable legal representation at asylum support hearings and hearings before the Special Immigration Appeals Commission, if indeed, they replace the system of judicial review, which I hope that they will not. Is not that a breach of Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights, as may be the streamlining of appeal in the overriding interests of speed at the possible expense of justice?
So I am deeply concerned about many of the Bill's provisions. I do not have time to mention all of my concerns now, but the removal of applicants before their appeal is one that I mention specifically. I submit that the abolition of oral rather than written argument before judges is also a serious matter where issues of credibility arise or where the facts may be highly complex.
Let us remember that what is proposed is that officials and inferior tribunals should replace judicial scrutiny. It is noteworthy that the recent review of judicial procedure conducted by Sir Jeffery Bowman made no mention of any such steps.
To conclude, if ever it needed to be tested that Parliament should avail itself of the right to further scrutiny, it is on this Bill. The House of Lords has a clear duty in that regard.
9.10 p.m.
Lord Bhatia: My Lords, this is the fourth time in the past 10 years that immigration and asylum legislation has been reviewed. I welcome that because it gives us an opportunity to amend some of the shortfalls of previous legislation and to make the Bill more of an enabling one.
I remind your Lordships that Britain is a signatory to various international conventions, most of which assert that the recognition of the inherent dignity of all members of the human family is the foundation of equal human rights. It is on the issue of equal human rights that I wish to share my thoughts with your Lordships. No doubt, we shall have the opportunity to propose amendments to the Bill's detail in Committee. A number of issues such as children and family relations, employment, race relations, and accommodation centres, need to be discussed with a view to amending the Bill.
As an immigrant myself, having come to this country about 30 years ago, I understand the feelings, fears and frustrations of an immigrant, be he an asylum seeker or a person seeking employment or citizenship. The Bill must be sensitive to those feelings, fears and frustrations. We must ask ourselves why people want to migrate to Britain.
As an immigrant, I asked myself the same question 30 years ago. I saw Britain as a fair and just society. It had a tradition of welcoming immigrants over the centuries. It was a tolerant, liberal and free country. Most importantly, it was the oldest democracy with equality and respect for human rights at its core. Those were the reasons that prompted me to come to Britain, and I have never regretted my decision. The fact that I stand before your Lordships today as a Member of the House bears testimony to my assertion that this country is fair, just and democratic, giving equal rights to all who live here.
So today, I want only to remind your Lordships of those principles of democracy that we all hold dear and, as we revise and review the Bill, to think about those who want to come to this country, whether fleeing persecution or even death or seeking employment or citizenship. That review should focus not on deterring or restricting immigrants but on considering them with compassion, generosity and fairness. We should also take the view that, based on our past experiences, immigrants can be contributors and an asset to this country.
I wish to submit that few people wish to leave their home and move to another country and another culture. Some migrate because they have been forced to leave their country—Uganda comes to mind as an example. Others move because they perceive danger coming their way and must leave ahead of being unlawfully arrested, tortured or even killed. When such people arrive on our shores, we must devise methods and processes for dealing with them that are humane and sensitive and not aggressive or confrontational. The success of our immigration officers should be based not on how many people they have turned back but on how many people have been allowed in. Over the years, I have observed the
processes, and I have shared and understood the fears, frustrations, hurt and uncertainty that run through the minds of immigrants. I would not wish it on anyone, and, in legislating, we must understand the reasons why immigrants decide to come to Britain. We must frame rules that are fair and sensitive.We have three choices when dealing with people who come to our door. First, we can refuse to open the door. Secondly, we can open the door and then slam it shut. Thirdly, we can open the door to allow the person to come in and listen to his reasons for entering the country. Traditionally, Britain has made the third choice. In the past 150 years of migration to this country, people of different nationalities, colours, creeds and languages have come in and made their contribution in a huge variety of occupations, trades and endeavours. It is one of the most remarkable success stories of this nation.
We have gained by encouraging immigration. One could easily prove that by considering the number of jobs created by Ugandans, the wealth that they have accumulated and created and the success that they have made out of the opportunity that we gave them when they arrived penniless 30 years ago. We welcomed them with understanding, and we gave them respect and equal rights to develop their full potential. The British people must not lose that attribute. The laws that we craft today should nurture that tradition of tolerance and fairness. A thread of human rights and justice should pass through every clause, every paragraph, every sentence and every word of the legislation. The legislation must reflect the history and the tradition of Britain. It must take into account the needs and frustrations of the migrants. I am deeply conscious that the migrants for whom we are legislating are not here to argue their case, so I wish to speak for them, as many others have done today and in the past.
On his retirement, a friend with whom I had worked in Oxfam for many years said to me, "Thank you for allowing me to touch and smell poverty. I had read about it, but it is different when you can touch and smell it". Similarly, the plight of those who come to these shores can be understood not by reading about it in the abstract but by gaining a full understanding of the issues and by learning from the past, when we opened our doors to those who were in distress and were fleeing from oppression and death.
In the ancient Vedas of India, it says:
- "Our guests are our gods".
9.18 p.m.
Lord Dubs: My Lords, I shall start by saying that, for the seven years up to 1995, I was head of the Refugee Council. That experience strongly influenced my attitudes to the issue. The way in which Europe and this country deal with asylum seekers will continue for many years to be a test of our commitment to human rights.
When it is put to people in this country and all over Europe that we are talking about people with a well founded fear of persecution fleeing because they fear torture, imprisonment and even death, they accept that it is a human rights responsibility. However, the obscenity of people trafficking is a threat to the integrity of the human rights principles of the asylum system. It confuses public opinion, and people become critical and hostile, when they would otherwise be supportive and sympathetic. Most people realise that the asylum seekers who come to this country are highly motivated people who wish to get a job and contribute to society and their community in this country. But with people trafficking we have an entirely different process. Therefore, I welcome any moves to strengthen the provisions against people trafficking. I hope that those people will be caught and punished because they are playing havoc not just with the integrity of the asylum system but with lives, as many people die in the process of being part of the traffic to this country or Western Europe.
We should also be careful about the language we use when talking about asylum and refugees. It is all too easy to use emotive and prejudicial language. That is unhelpful. It simply inflames the more prejudiced elements of public opinion. It does not help towards the clarity of approach. I hope that everyone will continue to be very careful about how they describe asylum seekers and refugees.
There is a threat in Europe from the far Right. We have to understand the people who are susceptible to such influences even though not of the far Right politically. But such an understanding does not mean that we should pander to the views of the far Right, but be robust in the defence of our basic principles.
I believe it is right that we should move, if possible, to an EU-wide approach to this matter for the reason that frontiers are easier to cross and so forth, provided that that approach is based on human rights principles and is not simply an attempt to close doors against people who have a proper and legitimate claim under the 1951 convention. Where people do not have such a claim it is vital that they should be removed if there are no other compassionate circumstances. The corollary is that we have to be robust in defending the right of people who have a claim under the 1951 convention.
Having said that, I believe that the pressure of asylum seekers and others is imposing enormous burdens on a liberal society such as ours. It is very hard for such a society to be as tough as it might wish with people who do not qualify under the 1951 convention. I have therefore come to the conclusion that, in parallel with an asylum policy, we need an immigration policy. I note that the Government have said something about that in the recent past. By an immigration policy I do not mean simply the work permit system which we have had for so many years, but a small quota of people who could qualify under what I might call a green card scheme. They would be people who have the skills which we need and who can apply from the countries in which they live to come here.
I am not saying that it should be a large scheme, but if we had such a system it would enable us more robustly to say to people who do not qualify under the Geneva Convention, "Go back home; you can't jump the queue, but you have another way of getting to this country". I add that it would work much better if it were done Europe-wide so that there were not pressures in one EU country against another. That is the way in which we should move forward. If we do not, I believe that we shall continue to have legislation and try to respond to pressures, some of which are legitimate and some not. We may not get on top of the difficulties. I would like to see an immigration policy alongside an asylum policy.
Everybody agrees that there is a need for quick decisions provided the process is fair. What we should not do is throw fairness and integrity of procedure out of the window in the wish to have a quick decision. I have long been a supporter of quick decisions because that is the only way in which to treat people fairly and properly. If it takes years to arrive at a decision and people have already settled here, it is impossible to remove them. It is not even proper to do so.
I have long believed that the Geneva Refugee Convention should mean what it says, that people should seek asylum in the first safe country they reach. I do not mean if they are in transit at an airport. If they have stayed any length of time in a country they should claim asylum there and be entitled to it, and not be able to move on to where they want to go. There are two important qualifications. Where there are family links it is right that another country should accept an asylum seeker because of that link even if the first safe country reached was a different one. For example, if a person claims asylum in Germany and it is the first safe country to be reached, but that person has family in this country, it would be sensible if we said that it was proper for that person to come here and vice versa. If there are other links with this country, the system should be flexible enough to accommodate them. If an asylum seeker has been educated here, it may be more sensible for him or her to be given asylum in this country than in Italy, Spain or wherever. However, those are exceptions. In the main the principle has to be that people must seek asylum in the first safe country reached. That is the difficulty we have with Sangatte.
I have long believed that there should be accommodation facilities for newly-arrived people. It is a way of giving them stable accommodation for a period, advice, support and legal help so that they can proceed to make their asylum claim in calmer circumstances. I am worried about accommodation centres that will be located miles away from any of the support services. I refer to community groups which are very supportive of asylum seekers or those offering legal advice such as the Refugee Legal Centre and the Immigration Advisory Service. It is right that centres should be close enough for reasonable access.
If accommodation centres are large, arrangements will have to be made for schooling within the centres. But that is not an argument for large accommodation
centres. It is an argument for small centres and a quick move into local schools. Yes, there will be extra burdens on local schools and help needs to be given to them. I accept that in the short term children who do not speak English can be taught English separately. But after that it is surely right that they should move into ordinary schooling. I think that that is the right way forward. That presupposes smaller accommodation centres in more accessible locations and such community support as possible.We hear a great deal about the policy of dispersing asylum seekers. We have to be careful about how we do so. Of course, I am in favour of it in principle. When I was with the Refugee Council we were dealing with Bosnian asylum seekers under the Home Office scheme—those who had come out of Serb concentration camps, as I think they should be called. We sought to disperse people but in clusters so that there were enough people from the same background for mutual support; and local support could be provided. If one disperses asylum seekers in penny packets throughout the country, they will feel lonely and isolated and want to return to areas where they receive community support. I am in favour of dispersal but it must be done properly and sensibly.
We have to be careful about push-pull factors in Europe. I do not agree with many of the points made. We have a better system with regard to entitlement to work after six months in this country than do many other countries. It is proper, and represents human dignity, to say, "Yes, you have the right to work after six months here". But if we are one of the few European countries which allows that, there will be pressure to come here because people want to work. Asylum seekers do not want to live on benefits. In my experience, they are desperate to work and make their way. We should argue that there should be similar arrangements in other European countries as regards the right to work for asylum seekers. We should not make our system worse; other European countries should make theirs better.
I am concerned about detention on the arbitrary decision of an official. It goes against all our traditions of justice and rights for people. I am not sure that I fully understand the bail arrangements when asylum seekers are detained. I do not say that there are no circumstances in which someone may be detained. When a man or woman is being removed, it may be necessary to detain him or her. But when people come into the country there should be some safeguards against the say-so of an official. A simpler system would be to have the right to apply to an immigration tribunal and adjudicator. I am not sure that the bail system will be fast or flexible enough. I do not know what kind of bail system we shall have when the Bill goes through. I urge the Government to consider a straightforward, simple, quick system whereby the Home Office would have to demonstrate that there is a need to keep someone in detention; otherwise the presumption should be that he should not be detained and locked up.
I should like to make two final points. First, along with many other noble Lords, I am concerned about applicants having to appeal against unfavourable decisions outside this country. Perhaps we could devise an arrangement within the European Union because the Union is a safe place. But to send asylum seekers to more distant countries where they would be totally out of the reach of legal advice and those who understand our laws, and who might be in danger in those countries, would be difficult. I am not happy about those arrangements as I understand them.
Secondly, on the proposal to learn the English language, I believe that it is highly desirable. Those people who have thrown in their lot with this country through the citizenship provisions should be able to speak the language. They cannot exercise their rights as citizens unless they do so. Therefore it is right and desirable to encourage immigrants to learn. Furthermore, they will be entitled to full civic, social and community rights in this country, which I believe is the only way for people to live happy and sensible lives. They must contribute on equal terms with others to life in this country.
9.31 p.m.
Baroness Ludford: My Lords, I should like to thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate. The speeches have been instructive. I offer two further sets of thanks. The first goes to all those organisations that briefed us. We are fortunate in the remarkable strength and quality of the civil society bodies working in the area of justice and human rights. I welcome in particular the formation of the Asylum Coalition, comprising a number of distinguished and respected organisations. It we keep up the rate of introducing new asylum and immigration legislation every two years, those bodies will certainly have plenty of work to do.
Secondly, I thank all refugees and immigrants, including my noble friend Lord Dholakia and the noble Lord, Lord Desai, who, I understand, unfortunately was on the losing side in the tug-of-war contest. I thank not only all the doctors, nurses, engineers and IT specialists, but also the cleaners, minicab drivers, late night shop assistants and construction workers without whom this great city would not function. As the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, himself the descendant of refugees, noted, last Thursday's International Refugee Day should have reminded us both of our obligations and of the benefits of refugees.
Ministers have been given much to think about in the course of a well-informed debate. Many Members of this House have had a great deal of practice on previous immigration and asylum Bills but, in the words of the Refugee Council, we seem to be in the grip of a permanent revolution on this topic. We need to introduce some stability. Again, we are embarking on a search for a set of policies that will be, at long last, durable and workable; indeed, that are worthy of enduring. Are we finally going to get it right this time?
That will be the task of this House over the next few weeks, but we shall manage it only if we change the orientation of the Bill away from its obsession with control, deterrence and restriction—concentrating on the enforcement of negative decisions—towards protection, sound decision-making, respect for human rights and justice, dignity and humanity through processes that are dispassionate, independent and fair. That point was also made by the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia.
I happen to believe that it does not help that the Home Office views everything from a law and order perspective. It groups crime, immigration, race relations and integration all under one umbrella. The dominant culture in the Home Office is one of control rather than of protection or integration.
There is no call to demonise asylum seekers or economic migrants. We face a serious challenge on immigrants and asylum seekers, but we do not have a crisis. As the noble Lord, Lord Judd, pointed out, we need to put things into perspective and not hype them up. The UNHCR has commented that a decade ago Europe had 650,000 asylum seekers in a year; last year the figure was 350,000. That compares to 22 million being hosted in poor countries. Last year the UK had 80,000 asylum seekers, representing one-tenth of 1 per cent of our population. We take less than 2 per cent of the world's refugees, not 25 per cent, as many Britons believe. The numbers do not bear out the insinuation that the overwhelming majority of cases are undeserving. Some 30 to 40 per cent of applicants are accepted.
I was disappointed a few weeks ago by something the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, said in a newspaper article. He was quoted as saying that economic migrants were abandoning their families. Evidence and reason suggest the opposite. Families will make what is, for them, a highly rational decision to invest in getting a young man out of danger or poverty so that he can earn money and send it back home to keep the remainder of his family alive.
Those who use derogatory language towards asylum seekers and immigrants—words such as "swamping", "soft touch", "scroungers", "cheats", "bogus"—never seem to make up their minds whether the charge they level concerns asylum seekers coming here to take our welfare benefits or our jobs. It cannot be both.
I am sorry that there is not more in the Bill about integration and preparation for work. Asylum seekers should have access to schemes such as the New Deal to increase their employability, as well as to EU funded schemes such as EQUAL. They should have the right to work after six months, although I accept the point of the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, that this should be on an EU basis. Refugees should have a great deal more help in converting their qualifications, which, for many people, particularly those in the medical field, is extremely difficult.
I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Desai, that we need a much more coherent overall framework for immigration and asylum policies and that this should
be done at the EU level, as the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, also said. But it must be based on human rights principles.I am delighted that the UK proposal to cut aid was defeated at Seville by an interesting—I hesitate to say "unholy" in the presence of the right reverend Prelates—alliance of Sweden and France. We must put much more effort into creating prosperity and democracy in developing countries in order that people are not forced to leave them through desperation but to leave them, as we would expect, through curiosity to see the world and to have new experiences.
The sad thing about the run-up to Seville was that the rhetoric about deterring migrants was not matched by militancy about tackling poverty and human rights abuses, the root causes that act as push factors for people to risk their lives in leaky boats and airtight containers or by clinging to cross-Channel trains. Why was there nothing in the Seville conclusions about the abolition of the protectionism of the CAP, to which the Government subscribe, and the outrageous subsidies for farm exports from the EU and US, which we dump on developed country markets? What about cutting arms exports? Two weeks ago, when the Government were preparing for the potential arrival of refugees from the Kashmir region, they refused to impose an arms embargo on India and Pakistan, as suggested by my colleague.
In the rhetoric on illegal immigration we detect similarities with the Dangerous Dogs Act scenario—that something must be done. I am concerned that this raising of the temperature, far from making Europeans feel more secure, will play into the hands of organisations on the far right by stealing their clothes, as my noble friend Lord Greaves said. Generating a greater sense of fear and suspicion increases insecurity. We risk a war against illegal immigrants causing collateral damage to tolerance and race relations.
The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, drew attention to the dangers of creating hostility towards asylum seekers—including an increase in racial attacks—which would place black and Asian British citizens at risk of discrimination.
Instead of raising the barriers of fortress Europe we need a rational strategy consisting of three strands: a common asylum system, a managed, legal migration policy, and policies to stop illegal immigration. If the emphasis is placed purely on deterrence we risk branding all asylum seekers as illegal immigrants. By creating such perceptions, Europe risks drifting into a lowering of its humanitarian obligations.
One problem is that illegal entry is becoming the only way that genuine refugees can get here. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley and the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, referred to the problems for transport companies of the carrier liability provisions.
Three years ago at the Tampere summit, the heads of state agreed to progress a balanced package on the three aspects I have mentioned. But, although all the proposals are on the table from the European Commission, very few have been agreed by Ministers.
Ironically, the area in which several measures have been agreed is tackling illegal immigration, including people smuggling and trafficking. Indeed, I believe that the penalties in the Bill derive from the implementation of EU law, and that is a welcome element.But if we take the commitment to a common asylum system, Ministers have agreed very little. The reform of the Dublin convention, for instance, which would help to solve the Sangatte situation by obliging France to take responsibility for those asylum claims is blocked in the Council by a French veto. The Seville summit set a deadline of the end of this year to agree it, but what chance there is without qualified majority voting I do not know. We need an EU asylum system to stop both forum-shopping and pass-the-parcel".
In the third area that the EU set itself—a policy on legal migration—there is an almost complete lack of progress. It does not help that the UK declines to opt into EU common action in this area. In particular, the EU is refusing to sign up to some liberal measures to give the 1.5 million long-term legal migrants in this country who do not have British passports—Indians, say, or Australians—the right to go on holiday or to get a job in another EU country without going through a lot of red tape. But beyond that, we need an EU blue card scheme.
The Bill does too little to open up legal channels of migration for the unskilled as well as the skilled. The Government have talked about this in recent months, but it has not fed through into these proposals. Anyone who wants an overview of the rather messy situation in EU immigration and asylum policy would do well to read Quentin Peel's article in today's Financial Times. It is a very good description.
Several speakers have emphasised the need for an orderly process. There is no rule of law if we cannot ensure that people who are physically here have a right to be here. But the means that we use are open to debate.
Similar points have been made today, as in relation to the previous Bill four years ago—for example, in order to have a more efficient and better-managed process we must front-load the initial decision-making system. We need the right staff and facilities for efficient and quick decisions; for example, a decent computer system. We need an independent country documentation and assessment centre. We need legal aid and advice from the earliest stage and throughout the procedure. But the commitment to that in the White Paper is not carried through in provisions in the Bill. Speeding up the system just by cutting appeal rights is likely to create both injustice and more delay. It is often the Home Office itself that seeks adjournments because it is not ready.
There are no proposals in the Bill to increase the quality and standard of initial decisions—a defect that has run as a theme through the debate. I agree with the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St Johns, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew of Twysden.
Representing London, as I do in my other capacity as a Member of the European Parliament, I listened carefully to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Best, who spoke from experience of the need for an effective dispersal system and for proper integration in the local community. The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, also made sensible points about dispersal in clusters. There is a real problem of asylum seekers drifting back to London without the London boroughs having the necessary resources to cope with them. But removing the subsistence-only option would make that worse and would lead to a large number of destitute people in our city.
On accommodation centres, I share the view that the proposals need a great deal of change. There should be a time limit of six months on stays; such people should not be placed in rural areas; the centres should be much smaller than the 750 capacity, and by locating them in towns and cities, we can then integrate the children of asylum seekers in local schools. As the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said, deprived local communities are not likely to be well disposed to further pressure on local resources, so we must invest in the communities that host asylum seekers.
I strongly agree with the numerous speakers, such as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, who have welcomed some aspects of the Bill, such as the abolition of vouchers, citizenship classes and language knowledge. As the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, said, all of us need citizenship training. I welcome the co-operation with UNHCR on the refugee resettlement programme so long as that is additional to the refugee convention obligation. As my noble friend Lady Williams said earlier, the Seville summit conclusions included a commitment that the EU asylum policy must comply with international conventions, principally the 1951 Geneva convention. I am not sure that we heard the Government say that they fully support that commitment.
The merits of the Bill have been outweighed by expressions of concern, especially from my noble friend Lord Lester, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, as well as the noble Lords, Lord Beaumont of Whitley and Lord Clinton-Davis. The concern is whether the Bill adequately respects human rights. The report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights is a damning indictment of the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, referred to parts of the Bill being dangerous and unacceptable. As the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, said, many aspects of the Bill do no credit to a government committed to social justice. She raised concerns about women in accommodation centres and was rightly worried about detention, which is greatly extended by the Bill.
Time is running out and I need to finish, so I shall not repeat what has been said about all the problems relating to detention, particularly detention of families, the lack of judicial oversight or automatic bail hearings. The defects of those provisions have
been much commented on. There are also restrictions on appeal and judicial review. I know that the Minister will have made good note of those issues.The Minister has a lot to respond to. I hope that he can reassure us on many of the points that have been raised so that the Bill can be vastly improved and this country can genuinely hold up its head in respecting its international humanitarian obligations.
9.47 p.m.
Viscount Bridgeman: My Lords, the hour is late. First, I echo the thanks expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, to every Member of your Lordships' House who has taken part in the debate and to a number of organisations that have given us very good briefing. I also echo the concern expressed from all parts of the House at the deplorable time treatment given to the Bill in another place. I particularly have in mind the strictures of my noble and learned friend Lord Mayhew and the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis.
My noble friend Lady Anelay referred briefly to Part 1. I shall concentrate my remarks on that part. We agree with the main thrust of the Bill, which follows the Government's intentions set out in the White Paper, Secure Borders, Safe Haven. However, our support is not wholly uncritical and we shall raise a number of questions during our proceedings on the Bill. We certainly support in principle some form of examination of an applicant for citizenship to find out what they understand to be the British way of life and all that goes with it. Some questions have been raised about the phrase,
- "sufficient knowledge about life in the United Kingdom".
It is vital that we get this right. For many of the aspiring candidates for citizenship, this will be the most important and far-reaching decision of their life. Many will feel it a source of great pride and privilege to be accepted as a British citizen. We heard a heart-warming endorsement of citizenship of this country from the noble Lords, Lord Bhatia and Lord Ahmed. We owe it to these aspirants to produce a form of examination worthy of those aspirations, as well as satisfying critics in some quarters who claim that the idea reeks of condescension. The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, has given us a succinct illustration of the problems faced by those trying to structure a meaningful examination.
It is also important that the regulations giving effect to what one might call the examination for citizenship exhibit due sensitivity to those who should be exempt from the examination requirements. New subsection (2) to be added to the British Nationality Act 1981 will empower the Secretary of State to waive the requirement that a person must have sufficient knowledge of life in the United Kingdom. Such
requirements are likely to apply to young persons, to those arriving in the afternoon of their lives and to those with special needs. We welcome that power of waiver; it is most important that it is applied with sensitivity and common sense.I turn to the question of the requirement for a certain basic understanding of English as a condition of the granting of citizenship, which is set out in Clause 1(2). That was well set out in the White Paper and has attracted much criticism, which we consider ill-founded. Remarks such as "linguistic colonialism", I suggest, are wide of the mark, although I have to say that the suggestion from a Labour Member of Parliament before the publication of the White Paper that prospective spouses coming to Britain for arranged marriages should be required to learn English was rightly criticised as being a case of the state dictating who was to marry whom.
The tradition of this country has been to welcome immigrants with their own linguistic culture and to permit them to continue it without hindrance and for those who wished to take out British citizenship to do so with very little formality; the ability to speak English was not a consideration. On the whole, it just happened. However, the position today is that many of the communities in which English, Scottish Gaelic or Welsh are not the mother tongue are very large in terms of population. It may well be possible and a temptation for a non-English speaker to get by, as it were, and to get lost in his or her community. However, it is the view on this side of the House that the gaining of British citizenship should require an awareness—albeit in many cases a nebulous awareness—of British civic values. There can be no question that that is made immensely easier by a knowledge of at least one of the native tongues of the United Kingdom. Added to that is the well-documented statistic that knowledge of English and, in appropriate localities, of Welsh or Scottish Gaelic, undoubtedly add to the chance of getting a job. That point was articulated by the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, who was quoting the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, to another debate. We are persuaded of its necessity but it is important to stress that it is a new development in British mores. We must never forget that there are many loyal citizens of this country who have no English and, conversely, many who feel no affection or allegiance but whose English is excellent.
We welcome the proposal for a citizenship ceremony, which is a well-established procedure in several countries, notably Canada, Australia and the United States. In particular, we are pleased that there is an unequivocal statement of allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen. I am sure that the Minister will look into the question of rectifying the Scottish problems in that regard. The oath, taken with the pledge, are, in our view, an appropriate package for a new candidate for citizenship.
We have real concerns about Clause 4, which are shared by many noble Lords. Many will regard that clause as being contentious, involving as it does the deprivation of citizenship. It is vitally important that that clause is considered most carefully by your
Lordships. Noble Lords will be aware that the Constitution Committee in its 6th report has drawn the House's attention to the fact that, whereas under the British Nationality Act 1981 the Secretary of State may under certain circumstances deprive of British citizenship a person who became a British citizen by registration, this power under the Bill is extended to all British citizens, including, that is, to British-born citizens. I grant that proposed new Clause 40(3) of the British Nationality Act provides that the Secretary of State may not exercise that power if it would thereby make a person stateless. The report goes on to say:
- "This would no doubt remove the potential effect on most British Citizens but could affect such persons who have dual nationality".
As I said, there are a number of aspects of the Bill with which we on these Benches are in agreement. For the most part, they give effect to the White Paper, which we have welcomed in principle, and in most cases they are sensible improvements on existing immigration legislation. They include the removal of the minimum age for registration, the removal of the previous distinction between legitimate and illegitimate children, and also two important clauses. Clause 10 tightens up the regulations relating to entitlement to the right of abode in the United Kingdom, and Clause 11 clarifies the meaning of "unlawful presence" in the United Kingdom.
Of the contributions made by several of my colleagues, I want to mention in particular that of my noble and learned friend Lord Mayhew. In a strong speech, he laid emphasis on fairness, on the saving of expense and on the basic practicalities of the Bill. If I may say so, he made a number of hits, and I hope that the Minister will rise to the occasion with some convincing replies.
As I said at the beginning, we agree with the general thrust of this part of the Bill. Any suggestions which we make for its improvement will, I hope, be constructive. However, I am aware that our general approval is not shared by many of tonight's speakers. The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, left us in no doubt about that. Therefore, we look forward not only to the Minister's reply but also, during the later stages of the Bill, to an open debate on the concerns expressed by many noble Lords.
9.56 p.m.
Lord Filkin: My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate for their contributions. We have heard some thoughtful and deeply felt speeches. I am particularly grateful to those who managed to stay the course and waited to hear the response. Clearly, in the time that noble Lords will be prepared
to stay, it will be impossible for me to answer all the points raised, but I shall try to address a fair number of them. We shall have an opportunity to go into others in more detail at later stages.I was reminded both by my noble friend Lord Borrie and by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, of the seriousness of the challenge that any government will face in the situations before us. They are not insuperable challenges, nor ones that we should view as concerning issues that are out of control. Nevertheless, they are serious in that they relate to how one balances humanity with realism, or, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew, better expressed it, justice with practicality. In a sense, that is the dilemma. There are pressures on government and we are trying to meet both those tests at the same time rather than believing that we must simply deal with one or the other.
I was reminded of when, as a housing officer, I sought to deal with homelessness applicants. One faced exactly the same problem. People said that certain applicants were exaggerating and telling stories or lies in order to obtain accommodation for the homeless. Sometimes that was true and such people deprived other people of accommodation. Again, one faced the challenge of balancing those two pressures.
I turn, first, to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, and to the interesting part of it on the subject of citizenship. He spoke about the importance of an active debate. I very much share that view, and that issue is one of my responsibilities in the Home Office. There is not time to do it justice now, but I should like to talk to the noble Lord later about how, when and in what ways we can try to promote an effective debate on citizenship.
The negative side of that is the deprivation of citizenship, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, and my noble friend Lady Uddin. They said that they believed that that matter should be subject to review by the judiciary. We recognise that deprivation of citizenship is a serious step and that it may have serious consequences. It will not be a routine act but will be confined to the most serious cases. Decisions will be subject to review by the judiciary. A full appeal will be available and we shall be able to review the merits of decision-making. As has been mentioned, one cannot deprive a person if, by so doing, it would render him stateless.
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