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Division No. 2

CONTENTS

Aberdare, L.
Addington, L.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blatch, B.
Boardman, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Chadlington, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Goodhart, L. [Teller]
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holderness, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hylton, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lindsay, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lucas, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Prior, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Selborne, E.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tope, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Wolfson, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brightman, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chorley, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nicol, B.
Orme, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Serota, B.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thornton, B.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L. (Lord Privy Seal)
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

25 Jun 2002 : Column 1240

5.32 p.m.

Clause 10 [Assumptions to be made in case of criminal lifestyle]:

Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 16:


    Page 6, line 25, at end insert—


"(8A) But if a confiscation order mentioned in section 8(2A)(c) has been made against the defendant at any time during the period mentioned in subsection (8)—

25 Jun 2002 : Column 1241


(a) the relevant day is the day when the defendant's benefit was calculated for the purposes of the last such confiscation order;
(b) the second assumption does not apply to any property which was held by him on or before the relevant day."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 14 [Postponement]:

Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 17:


    Page 9, line 2, at end insert—


"(11) A confiscation order must not be quashed only on the ground that there was a defect or omission in the procedure connected with the application for or the granting of a postponement.
(12) But subsection (11) does not apply if before it made the confiscation order the court—
(a) imposed a fine on the defendant;
(b) made an order falling within section 13(3);
(c) made an order under section 130 of the Sentencing Act (compensation orders)."

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 17, I shall also speak to Amendments Nos. 50 and 75.

The purpose of these amendments is straightforward. They are designed to stop confiscation orders from being quashed merely because some procedural error has taken place in the application of the postponement procedures. I shall, if I may, provide your Lordships with a little background on this occasion, as it is directly relevant to the amendments.

As your Lordships will be aware, the Bill amends the postponement regime in the existing legislation. In particular, following recommendations in a report of the Performance and Innovation Unit, the normal postponement period is extended from six months to two years. It is important to understand, however, that the basic mechanics of the postponement regime envisaged by the Bill remain rather similar to those in the existing legislation.

Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly clear that the courts are finding this legislation difficult to operate. A string of appeal cases testifies to the fact that defendants regularly attempt to have the confiscation order overturned on the grounds that the postponement procedures were not applied properly by the court. Confiscation orders are being lost as a result. The case of Woodhead, decided by the Court of Appeal in January this year, is a good example. In that case, the postponement procedures had been followed to the letter. However, the Court of Appeal overturned a confiscation order of 200,000 on the grounds that the judge had not shown that he was exercising his discretion when agreeing to the postponement.

The Government's concern is clearly that the postponement arrangements in the Bill should not come under similar attack. The purpose of the

25 Jun 2002 : Column 1242

amendments is to prevent that from happening. Most of the current difficulties arise from the fact that the legislation is interpreted as imposing a strict procedural regime which must be followed to the letter if a confiscation order is not to fall. We do not think that this approach is correct. We are not dealing here with a trial but with the imposition of a post-conviction measure. It is quite inappropriate to quash a confiscation order merely because there has been some procedural defect in the application of the post-trial postponement procedures. The amendments therefore make it clear that a confiscation order made under the Bill cannot be quashed just because there has been some technical defect in the court's application of the postponement procedures.

I should stress, however, that the amendments do not allow the courts to ignore other aspects of the confiscation procedures. Subsection (12) states explicitly that the procedural protection afforded in relation to postponement does not apply where they make the mistake of imposing a fine or some other financial order before they make the confiscation order. This is because the defendant would suffer serious hardship if one of these orders were made before the confiscation order. There is no discretion to reduce the confiscation order to take account of these orders. The confiscation order needs to be made first so that fines and other financial orders can be made with the knowledge of how much is required to be paid under the confiscation order.

These amendments will improve the practical operation of the Bill and preserve the integrity of a confiscation order. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 15 [Effect of postponement]:


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