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Lord Northbourne moved Amendment No. 116A:
- After Clause 77, insert the following new clause—
The noble Lord said: My Lords, in moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 121D. I grouped the amendments because they both
Dealing with Amendment No. 116A, in her reply to a similar amendment in Committee, the Minister drew attention to the Government's commitment to young children and their parents. She referred to the Government's Sure Start initiatives and the Early Years partnership. As promised, she kindly arranged for me to be briefed on Sure Start and its progress. I was extremely impressed by what I learnt about what Sure Start is doing. It is a multidimensional and holistic programme and there is consultation with parents and professionals. I understand that evaluation is beginning to show some results in the areas in which the programme is working well.
The problem is this: when this phase of the Sure Start programme is rolled out completely in 2004, still only one-third of the nation's children in poverty will be covered by it; two-thirds will not be covered. I say in parenthesis that not all children living in poverty are necessarily in need of support and some children living in rich households may need support. Bearing in mind the huge dividends in terms of physical and emotional health and educational potential, which can be achieved by improving the environment in which a young child grows up during his or her first three years, it is surely extremely short-sighted not to roll out the Sure Start programme more quickly.
If the best way to raise families out of poverty is to bring them into employment, surely investment in the child's early years is doubly important because it enables the mother to go out to work earlier. That is good for the mother and the child.
I hope that the Minister will give an assurance that she and her right honourable friend the Secretary of State will fight as they have never fought before to persuade the Treasury that investment in the very early years is the best investment that it could possibly make.
I turn to Amendment No. 121D. I can be fairly brief because the Minister wrote to me indicating certain assurances that she is likely to feel able to give from the Dispatch Box. On the basis of those assurances, I should accept that the matter had been sufficiently addressed and would not press the amendment. I shall not delay the House for more than a moment because I set out the details of the case in Committee. For the benefit of anyone who was not in Committee then or who cannot remember the issues, I shall summarise my argument in a couple of sentences.
The Soho Family Centre operates an innovative and highly successful centre in Soho, where a group of childminders care for children in premises that are specially equipped for the purpose and shared between them. Ofsted, which recently took over the inspection of such facilities, decided that the Soho Family Centre falls foul of the law in that technically it does not operate in domestic premises, which is a requirement relating to childminders. It felt that it could not turn a blind eye to that technical infringement (Westminster council had done so for many years), and it seemed probable that the centre would have to close.
My noble friend Lady Howe and I were deeply concerned about that for two reasons. First, it would be a great pity if that important facility were closed down. Secondly, it is an exciting and innovative experiment and it would be a great loss if the formula that it has evolved were lost for ever. Under the arrangements that I hope that Minister will advance, the possibility of expanding the formula that the Soho Family Centre has developed would become a reality. I beg to move.
Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, I rise to support the amendment and to discuss the Soho centre. Both of these amendments and those in the following group, which appear in the name of my noble friend Lord Northbourne, should have had my name attached to them. However, I am afraid that a mistake was made and it was omitted.
I turn to the foundation stage. Amendment No. 116A would ensure that educational finance and other resources can be made available in appropriate circumstances even when—this is the point about the very young generation—the child in question who is under three is not at that stage being provided with nursery education, as defined in Clause 77(2). It is about tackling from every angle the "cycle of deprivation", which, as I have said on another occasion during the passage of the Bill, has been with us for generation after generation and for far too long. The purpose is to ensure that helpful intervention with deprived families can begin at that earliest possible moment, so that by the time the child concerned reaches compulsory school age, his or her chances of benefiting fully from the educational process will be considerably enhanced. I hope that the Minister will assure noble Lords that the ethos that lies behind the amendment can be accepted.
As the Minister knows, I have considerable admiration for the initiatives that the Government are already undertaking to tackle family deprivation. I was at the briefing that was given to my noble friend Lord Northbourne. There is very little doubt that those initiatives—early excellence centres, neighbourhood nurseries and Sure Start—will be successful. We are all eagerly awaiting assessment and dissemination of the results. With the Minister herself involved, in co-operation with health and social services, in the delivery of those plans, I have little doubt that the will and the necessary resources to succeed will be there. However, as is so often pointed out in your Lordships' House, Ministers, however good, come and go. I therefore hope that the amendment will make certain, by spelling it out in black and white in the Bill, that the department's resources can be made available in the pursuit of those valuable educational objectives if other current sources of funding, from health and social services departments, are diverted to other priorities.
I turn to the Soho centre. The concern was to ensure beyond doubt that, while more appropriate new legislation is being devised, centres that are similar to that in Soho can continue their valuable work. I shall
The centre has been providing this excellent service in the locality for some time. As we know, it is regarded by many experts as an example of best practice worthy of replication in similar areas where space is at a premium. Frankly, it would be a travesty if the Soho centre were forced to close because of a recent legal interpretation by local authorities that activities conducted on non-domestic premises cannot be defined as "childminding".
Therefore, I hope very much that the Minister can spell out unequivocally that the Soho centre, subject to its continuing work of this very high quality, will be able to continue under its present financial arrangements. If that is so, surely it is unlikely that there will be a need for the amendment to be pursued further.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I rise to support the spirit of both amendments. However, I understand that the Minister may tell us that Clause 13 gives the Government all the powers that they need in order to carry out what the first amendment seeks to achieve.
The House will know that I am very supportive of any measures to—at the risk of being drummed out of the House by the noble Lord, Lord Peston; I know that he hates the phrase—level the playing field. It is most important that we do so, in particular, at the pre-school stage. If the Government ensure that children benefit fully from their education when eventually they reach that stage, that will be a very good investment. Therefore, I call upon the Minister to make available more Sure Start programmes so that all children who could eventually benefit from such services receive them. I also support calls to ensure that the good work of the Soho centre does not have to end.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, I, too, rise to support the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne. The noble Baroness sent a very helpful letter to the noble Lord, and I understand that she will place much of it on the record for the purposes of this amendment. However, perhaps the noble Baroness will incorporate in her response the reply to some other questions.
On the first page of the letter is a commitment that the Government will, in principle, support models of childcare, such as the Soho centre model, and address the whole issue of domestic and non-domestic premises. The letter states that,
The second indent in that part of the letter states that,
It is a silly demarcation arrangement. I do not believe that anyone in this House would say that a way does not need to be found and that, frankly, it needs to be found quickly in order to allow the provision of the Soho Family Centre to continue. The fact that a person working in the Soho Family Centre is technically a childminder should not get in the way.
Therefore, with all the promises that have been made to look again at the regulations, at the definition of "childminder" and at the definitions of "domestic" and "non-domestic" premises, and with all the other reviews that are taking place of the Children Act and of the state of the law as it stands at present, it would be helpful to know whether the Soho Family Centre will be allowed to continue legitimately from this moment with the full blessing of the Government. It would also be helpful to know that there will be no visit from the inspectorate to say that what the centre is doing is contrary to the law.
"FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION STAGE
The Secretary of State may give or make arrangements for the giving of financial assistance to any parent or other person for or in connection with the education or preparation for school of a child prior to his attaining the "relevant time" as defined in section 77(2)"
5.45 p.m.
"we would not want the legal or regulatory framework to prevent the development of such arrangements".
My understanding is that they do so at present.
"the primary legislation does not need to be amended to accommodate such arrangements".
However, on the second page, where the noble Baroness refers to having debated the amendment in Committee, the letter states that she,
"argued that the wording proposed made a fundamental change to the childcare definitions in the Children Act".
Therefore, either it is a fundamental problem or it is not. It seems to me that there is a difference in concept between what is said on the first and second pages of the letter.
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