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Baroness Massey of Darwen: My Lords, I support the amendment. I tabled the Question on young people's health to which the noble Baroness. Lady Walmsley, referred. It is an important issue. A key point is that personal, social and health education is not a statutory part of the curriculum. Therefore, there must be a statutory provision to teach aspects of sexual behaviour and sexual health to improve young people's sexual health and well-being. I sincerely hope that the Minister will be sympathetic to the amendment.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, it may come as a surprise to noble Lords to hear that I am sympathetic to the argument advanced by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley. It seems to me that science lessons constitute the right forum in which to teach the science of HIV/AIDS, sexually transmitted diseases and sexual activity. However, there is a practical difficulty in that some parents withdraw their children from sex education lessons—they have the legal right to do so—but it is not beyond the wit of schools to ensure that parents know where that subject will be inserted in the
curriculum. In fact, they have an obligation to tell parents how that subject will be taught and what modules of the curriculum will include it to enable parents to exercise their legal right in that regard.However, I ask again: what is the purpose of subsection (12)? Unless my memory serves me badly—I am prepared to believe that that might be the case—my understanding was that the science curriculum could include some of the science aspects of some of the matters that are listed in subsection (12) of Clause 83. It would be helpful to know precisely the purpose of subsection (12). As I say, I am sympathetic to the argument advanced by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley.
Baroness David: My Lords, can the Minister tell us who included the provision in a previous Act? It would be interesting to know that. I thought that parents could withdraw their children from sex education but not from science. I may be ignorant on the matter but I hope that the Minister can put me right.
Lord Lucas: My Lords, I very much support the amendment, certainly as regards deleting paragraph (a) of subsection (12) which concerns a most interesting aspect of the immune system. All kids know about AIDS in one way or another. It is a fascinating bit of science as to why AIDS is such a difficult disease to attack—it affects the immune system from the inside—and that adds greatly to people's understanding of the dangers posed by the disease. It is a matter of science. I do not see why we should seek to exclude a useful bit of scientific knowledge on the ground that it might in some way verge on the PSHE curriculum from which we want people to have a right to withdraw.
I do not agree that we ought to use the science curriculum to teach pupils about sexual health. That is not what the science curriculum is intended for. But we should not have to blank out bits of science because they happen to have relevance to a subject from which we give parents the right to withdraw their children. I do not see that paragraph (b) of subsection (12) is ever likely to be included in any science curriculum short of degree level. I have not seen anything that touches on it in any science curriculum that I have ever seen. I do not suppose that something that deals with such rare and ordinary diseases is likely to come reasonably into a broad and general science curriculum at the compulsory age levels.
Paragraph (c) of subsection (12) refers to a matter that is often seen in nature programmes on television. It is a pity that one is not allowed to draw parallels between what children are exposed to routinely on television and what goes on between people in that regard. I refer to a most interesting aspect of ourselves as living creatures. One should be able to draw parallels between our behaviour and that of animals. I certainly do not see the reason for ruling that matter out of the science curriculum.
8.45 p.m.
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, to differentiate between the curriculum in England and that in Wales one has to move chunks—forgive the vernacular—of legislation and tidy them up. One does not extract little bits and pieces. I hope that that technical explanation will suffice.
I have consulted on the matter as a result of the question that the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, asked in Committee. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady David, that I understand that the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, included the measure we are discussing in previous legislation.
In Committee I agreed to take the matter away and reflect on the debate. I believe I made clear that it is not a question of what can lawfully be taught in the classroom. The subsection we are discussing does not prohibit teachers from teaching the topics that are listed but it prohibits them from being included in the programmes of study for science. By removing the subsection we could, if we wished to, amend the programmes of study for science to make the teaching of those topics compulsory. However, we do not have plans to do that.
I have reflected on the points made in Committee. I agree with what has been said on all sides of the House. I concluded that the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, is right; the relevant subsections are unnecessary. Accordingly, the Government accept the amendments as drafted.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, all I can say to the Minister is, "Thank you very much". There are not many amendments to the Bill which, if accepted, would save lives, but this is one of them. I thank the Minister warmly.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 104 [Establishment of the National Curriculum for Wales by order]:
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 121:
- Page 68, line 28, leave out subsection (12).
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 116 [Review Body: function]:
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 121ZA:
- Page 73, line 26, at end insert—
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, this amendment is very similar to one we moved in Committee. It gives us a chance to probe the Government's intentions a little further on the need for non-contact time and time for professional development for both full-time and part-time teachers. The amendment also seeks to ensure that teachers have suitable conditions to work effectively with the growing band of other staff, such as classroom assistants, who now work in our schools.
In Committee the Minister expressed considerable sympathy with the issues raised in the Official Report of 28th May at column 1208. But she said in column 1209 that,
I should like to take this opportunity to ask the Minister what is meant by,
The Government seem to be relying to a great extent on what might come out of the Comprehensive Spending Review but, although that is important, schools are losing staff now. Placing some reassurance on the record that the Government will provide the cash needed to support the hoped for recommendations would be very welcome.
The whole issue of learning support staff and classroom assistants is one that the Government have still not fully grasped. Paragraph (c) of the amendment refers to that. Although primary school teachers may have 15 minutes of non-contact time in the day, many schools employ classroom assistants for hours that
While we are on the subject, can the Minister say something about the way in which the Government plan to encourage schools and LEAs to reward newly trained classroom assistants properly and whether they intend to put in place a proper employment structure and a coherent training and development programme with appropriate remuneration at each stage?
The Minister will be aware that we on these Benches are very keen on the "Grow your Own" route into qualified teacher status as an additional route to the usual degree and PGCE or MEd qualification. The growth of the classroom assistant workforce gives a great opportunity to train more teachers—mature people who are very familiar with what life is really like in a classroom and therefore much less likely to get a shock and to leave the profession after a year or two. Can the Minister tell the House how she plans to use this opportunity to address the recruitment shortfall in schools? I beg to move.
"( ) In discharging its functions under this section the Review Body shall have regard to the need to ensure that—
(a) the conditions of employment of school teachers which relate to their working time are such that they may have a reasonable amount of time during each school day, or by such other allocation of time as may be appropriate, for the purposes of discharging professional duties other than those of teaching pupils;
(b) the conditions of employment of school teachers which relate to their working time are such that they may have an amount of time during each school year for the purposes of their own professional development without unreasonably increasing their overall workload;
(c) the conditions of employment of school teachers which relate to their professional duties are consistent with regulations made under section 129(1) and are such as may be appropriate to secure a balanced working relationship between persons employed as school teachers and others employed to work at each school; and
(d) teachers employed on a day to day or other short notice basis may be remunerated in such manner as may be appropriate to encourage them to take opportunities available to them for their own professional development and further training."
"To impose the requirements in this amendment would greatly fetter the discretion of the STRB to consider current facts and prevailing circumstances and to make recommendations independently".
However, she also made the welcome statement that,
"the STRB's statutory recommendations are as a matter of principle accepted by Government unless there are overriding reasons not to do so. That was the commitment from the start".—[Official Report, 28/5/02; col. 1209.]
"overriding reasons not to do so"?
Could it be cost or lack of sufficient staff to cover the non-contact time, or what? Can the Minister tell us how the remodelling working party is getting on with its work and about the Government's progress on the workload review? Will the Minister say whether the Government intend to support schools in the provision of non-contact and professional development time, and will extra funds become available? As there is nothing else in the Bill to address the recruitment and retention crisis in our schools, we see the amendment as a means of probing the Government's plans on one of the most pressing problems facing our schools today.
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