House of Lords
Thursday, 27th June 2002.
The House met at three of the clock (Prayers having been read earlier at the Judicial Sitting by the Lord Bishop of St Albans): The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Transport Policy: Division of Responsibilities
Lord Tebbit asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether the Secretary of State for Transport is responsible for transport policy in his own constituency.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 sets out the division of transport responsibilities. The reserved functions for which the Secretary of State for Transport is responsible include transport safety and regulation, such as for the railways and aviation, some aspects of road traffic regulation, such as vehicle standards, and transport security.
Lord Tebbit: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer, which might have been broadly and more shortly expressed as, "No, not in most cases". Is not this the West Lothian question incarnate? The English and Welsh electorate have policies imposed on them by Scots members of the Cabinet—to whom they have given no authorisation—which do not apply to Scotland.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I try to be more helpful than just saying, "Not in most cases". I thought it would be useful to set out the responsibilities that the right honourable Member for Edinburgh Central holds. There have been Scottish Secretaries of State for Transport before. Sir Malcolm Rifkind was Secretary of State for Transport from 1990 to 1992, at a time when a considerable number of transport responsibilities were held by the then Scottish Office.
The Earl of Mar and Kellie: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the West Lothian question is an acceptable constitutional anomaly, that the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, has found a somewhat half-hearted example, that the West Lothian question is a balancing measure for historical offences against Scotland and that it will be partially resolved by devolution in England? Finally, will the Minister confirm that today's United Kingdom is Scotland's finest achievement?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I am not sure which two of those questions I am supposed to answer. I understand that if there are more than two, I have a choice. It is interesting that since the passage
of the Scotland Act 1998, there has been very little reference to the West Lothian question. The arrangements seem to have bedded down particularly well. We have maintained the position that there are not two classes of Member of Parliament. Everybody is to be congratulated on that.
Lord Elton: My Lords, I have a supplementary West Lothian question. What is the proportion of Scots to other nationalities in the Cabinet of the United Kingdom and what is the proportion of Scots to other members of the population of the United Kingdom?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I am not aware that Scots is a nationality. It does not say so on anybody's passport.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that those of us who take an interest in transport issues will regard ourselves as fortunate to have such a talented and imaginative Secretary of State as Alastair Darling, as the Statement on Railtrack later this afternoon will show?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I am sure that the whole House will agree wholeheartedly with my noble friend.
Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, when the noble Lord uses the comparison between Alastair Darling and Malcolm Rifkind, he is clearly losing the argument. Devolution has entirely changed the process between the Scotland Office and the Scottish Parliament. Is not the real reason why Mr Darling has been given the job that his parliamentary seat is about to be done away with under the redrawing of the boundaries? This is all about seeking to ingratiate himself in England so that he can get a seat in England.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, Alastair Darling has been a first class member of the Government since 1997. He does not need to ingratiate himself with anybody.
Lord Borrie: My Lords, is there any case for restricting the Prime Minister's choice of Secretary of State for Transport in the way in which the Question implies?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, none whatsoever.
Lord Roberts of Conwy: My Lords, is it not abundantly clear in this melee of talk that the Cabinet could certainly do with an infusion of sensible Welsh blood?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, my noble and learned friend the Lord Privy Seal has answered that sotto voce. He agrees with the noble Lord, Lord Roberts.
Lord Swinfen: My Lords, are there any proposals to compensate Members of the other place who may lose their seats as a result of doing away with a number of the seats in Scotland?
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, we are not just getting away from the original Question; we are two steps away from it. I do not know the answer.
Parliamentary Estate: Medical Emergency Cover
3.6 p.m.
Lord Astor of Hever asked the Chairman of Committees:
- Whether the medical emergency cover within the Parliamentary Estate is adequate.
The Chairman of Committees (Lord Tordoff): My Lords, the House authorities keep the provision of medical cover constantly under review. Recent initiatives include the installation of automatic external defibrillators adjacent to this Chamber. Regrettably, in one case in December last year there was an unacceptable delay before an ambulance was called. However, I assure noble Lords that steps have been taken to ensure that such delays do not occur in future.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, I thank the Chairman of Committees for that Answer. Is he really satisfied that emergency procedures inside and outside the House have been improved since the unacceptable delay that my noble friend Lady Blatch had to endure, in great pain, waiting for an ambulance? Is he concerned that parliamentarians and staff—there are up to 5,000 people working in the parliamentary estate at any one time—appear to have only basic emergency cover after 5 p.m. when the nurse knocks off?
The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, the emergency cover is precisely the same after 5 p.m. as it is before 5 p.m. The provision of the nurse is not for emergency cover. The point of emergency cover is to recover the patient, to resuscitate the patient and to get him or her to hospital as quickly as possible. In the case of the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, that did not happen. However, I emphasise that the delay was not with the ambulance service; it was internal. The telephone operator took a long time to pass the message through to St Thomas' Hospital, because they were checking on various things at great length. That is partly because there have been a number of spurious phone calls to the 3333 emergency number, so those concerned were making sure that this was a serious case. Instructions have now been given that when emergencies on 3333 originate from here, the first thing to do is make sure that an ambulance is on its way.
I can give the noble Lord a few more details about that case. The call to the central ambulance control was not logged until 7.56 p.m., although the original call here was made at 7.30 p.m. After that, the ambulance arrived at 8.11 p.m. and was with the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, at 8.14 p.m. The ambulance service is in no way to blame for the delay that occurred on that occasion and we have taken steps to ensure that such a delay does not occur again.
Lord Walton of Detchant: My Lords, on a good many occasions over the past two years, I have been
called upon to offer medical advice within this House—the last occasion being this morning. Sometimes I have been asked to do so in curious locations, including, once, in the ladies' toilet. Is it not reasonable to have nursing cover in the evenings after 5 p.m.? After all, so far as I am concerned—I am sure that ultimately this may apply to many other medical Peers—if the General Medical Council's regulations on revalidation are soon to be introduced, it is possible that I shall be precluded from giving such advice on the ground of age.
The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, if I may say so, they must be precluding people at a very early age. We anticipate that in the near future nursing care will be able to continue until 10 p.m. However, I emphasise that nursing care is not strictly part of the emergency service; it is for normal day-to-day, simple medical assistance.
Lord Roper: My Lords, all parts of the House will be relieved that a review of the procedures in the telephone exchange has taken place so that unacceptable delays of the kind that occurred previously will not be repeated. However, I should be grateful for an assurance that continuous training is being given in the use of the defibrillators which have been provided and that access to oxygen is now readily available, as I understand that problems have occurred in that respect in the past.
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