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Baroness Uddin: My Lords, I hesitate to rise given that I did not take part in the Second Reading debate. This is a subject close to my heart and I would do myself no justice if I did not say a few words. I support Amendment No. 3, particularly with reference to the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Warnock, concerning the need to identify children's educational needs. I echo everything said by the noble Baroness, Lady Darcy de Knayth. She paid due respect to the Government's position up to now, but it is critical that we maintain the spirit of the amendment as tabled. I look forward to the Minister's response.
For a long time parents have fought tooth and nail to have the right to statements. To leave those parents and children exposed to the flexibility of the governing body or the LEA is inappropriate and unwise, given the experience of a minority of children. I note with some concern that the amendment does not address the issue of service provision. It is all very well having grand plans for children and services, but parents are often dissatisfied with the way that statements are provided. Service delivery is important. I am disappointed that neither this amendment nor the others tabled address that issue.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment. It is fair to say that there is a great deal of meeting of minds across the Chamber. The noble Baroness, Lady Darcy de Knayth, mentioned that the Minister has been sympathetic and has put forward amendments. The noble Baroness, Lady Darcy de Knayth, is equally understanding about the need to achieve the Government's ends; namely, to allow for innovation to be freely undertaken in schools.
We all agree that it should not be done at the expense of provision for young people with special educational needs. The difficulty is the distinction as to whether it should be a game of chance and left to the discretion
of the Secretary of State, or whether it should be a matter of law by removing the discretion. There could be occasions when a Secretary of State makes a judgment that is more subjective than objective and everybody else takes a different view on the provision for special educational needs.On Report the Minister said that it was inconceivable that a decision would be taken to allow for an innovative project which, in fact, had an adverse impact on young people with special educational needs. We only ever talk about the Secretary of State that we know is in power at any given time. People often say that Secretaries of State come and they go. They vary in style and the way in which they approach making decisions. Therefore, I believe the amendment is about taking chance and discretion out and making it a matter of law that there shall be no room for allowing any project that would impact adversely on provision for young people with special educational needs.
I suspect that we may just hear something to our liking from the Minister. If not, and the noble Baroness, Lady Darcy de Knayth, wants to press the amendment, she will have my support.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, I apologise for speaking at all. I have not spoken on this Bill. I have been involved in another Bill. The reason I am speaking is that many years ago I introduced a Private Member's Bill on special educational needs. After a considerable battle with the Government, eventually my noble friend Lady Blatch took over at Report stage and implemented the principles in the 1996 Act.
The reason I am speaking is that having really got in here by mistake and having discovered what was going on, it seems to me incredible that one should not have an effective measure of safeguard to preserve the statute of 1976 in its full efficacy. There should be no doubt about it at all. I do ask your forgiveness for having taken the time of the House.
Lord Addington: My Lords, I feel slightly abashed at joining in this Who's Who of legislation on special educational needs. When the Minister tabled the amendment that is now Clause 2(5), I thought it provided the defence and framework that is required to ensure that we retain those rather hard-won defences for those with special educational needs. However, enough people who know enough about this subject have raised questions for me to feel that it is just that we ask the Minister to give us chapter and verse on why she believes that it does give us this. What is the legal effect of her words in her opinion? Do we have the continuous process of ensuring the Government still have a duty to find out who has a problem and to give them some assistance?
It has been pointed out before that if the chain is broken and we lose, say, two or three years, that is the destruction of a child's education. During the decade and a half that I have been in this Chamber there has been a continuous struggle to ensure that that chain is in place. We have browbeaten governments of various
hues and various Ministers over this matter for a long time. The fact that it might be removed is a matter for genuine concern.We must ensure that we have not wasted all that time. Can the Minister tell us what the legal process is according to the Bill as it currently stands? Can she assure us that that process will take place and that we shall have in place what we have struggled for over those years? If so, I shall be content. However, we must hear that. If further legislation—secondary or primary—is required, the Government are duty bound to legislate. If that means that we must ask the Government to accept an amendment now so that they have time to make changes, I advise my noble friends to consider that. That is an important point. It is something we must guard because it has taken a long time winning.
Lord Lucas: My Lords, I am sure that Amendment No. 3 is entirely unnecessary from a legislative point of view. I cannot see that any Government will ever contemplate acting against what is in that amendment. Therefore, the Government should accept the amendment because it makes no difference to their freedom of action. However, it gives the many people involved with special educational needs the comfort of certainty. There is a great deal to be said in favour of certainty. If one knows that the Government can at a whim undermine the whole structure of special educational needs in this country, although it may not seem likely it is a constant worry. The Government know they will not do it. It would not harm them to take Amendment No. 3 on board. It would give everybody else great comfort.
3.30 p.m.
The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, during the passage of the Bill I have been particularly concerned about children in public care and their admission to schools. Such children are currently placed in schools that no one else wants, for various reasons and circumstances. I had hoped that the Bill would provide an opportunity to remedy that situation. Sadly, for technical reasons, that is not possible.
Some 26 per cent of looked-after children have statements of educational needs. If there is a serious concern that the protection for those 26 per cent may be in danger, I feel strongly that that should be avoided.
I look forward to the Minister's reply and I thank her for the great deal of time that she has spent listening to my concerns on the Bill. I very much hope that she can reassure us all. If not, I shall follow the advice of my noble friends and the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, on the amendment.
Lord Brennan: My Lords, the critical need of parents of children with special educational needs is for clarity about what they are entitled to for the benefit of their children. It would be most unfortunate if, in that sector of needy society, a debate such as this led to division. I am sure there is no sentiment towards division, but rather a desire for agreement. I therefore invite my
noble friend the Minister to agree with what I understand to be the principle of the Bill and to reassure us on how that principle is to be put into practice.Under Clause 1, innovative projects will be permitted only if they may,
- "contribute to the raising of educational standards".
That analysis of principle seems straightforward. I cannot imagine that a statute that is designed to better things can be interpreted by invoking a power to take away good things that already exist.
How is that principle best put into practice? It is not only by my noble friend the Minister confirming what the principle is today, but also by her reassuring us that the department will issue guidance under Clause 2(6) at the earliest opportunity on how it will approach the granting of applications, having special regard to the statutory duties for children with special educational needs, which are set out in the amendment. That is necessary, because it would be most unfortunate if, with this desire for clarity, a system was introduced with no one—neither parent, nor local authority, nor child, if they are able to understand—knowing by what criteria the Secretary of State will make decisions on innovative projects that affect the special educational needs of children. I cannot see that that is too much to ask of the Government and it would confirm the requirement that I initially emphasised: the need for all those concerned with these children to have clarity.
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