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Baroness Howarth of Breckland: When I sought to rise earlier, I had planned on making a different point. I should now like first to comment on the intervention of the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, regarding objectivity. I remind the Committee that there was a departmental investigation into many of the allegations of lack of objectivity in adoption proceedings. That investigation showed that social workers mainly demonstrated objectivity, and that many of the strange stories were myths and legends and not part of practice. We should continually remind ourselves that social workers and adoption workers are making extraordinarily complex decisions in these family situations. We should do all we can to support them in what we say in this Committee and this House.
I leave the legal points to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, and shall concentrate on practice issues. I shall, however, deal with two of the points he made. The first is that I have absolute sympathy with Members about the wish to see what is in the regulations, as they will address the very heart and emotion of the Bill. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, that matching is the core and most important point. That is why I do not agree with the noble Lord that we should deal with parts of the matter off the Floor of the House. The regulations will give an importance to some parts of the Bill which I believe they do not have in comparison with other parts of the Bill. Some people simply want to take a particular view—perhaps a dogmatic view; and clearly I have my own views—on those parts.
We should debate the whole of the Bill in Grand Committee. When we reach the next stage, people will have an opportunity to put those points. The proposal would give undue weight to certain issues, whereas those who are interested in this work should become involved in the broader issues.
I support one part of the proposals. Perhaps I should also say that I am having some difficulty following where we are in relation to the amendments. I support the proposal on independent guidance and representation of the child made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, and the noble Earl, Earl Howe, in Amendment No. 70ZA. This would be a useful check on some of the issues we raised in relation to regulation. It is very difficult to discuss the detail of regulation because regulation itself cannot be written in Committee; it has to be clarified in consultation. In Committee, issues that do not have much relevance to actual practice are approached differently.
If every child in the adoption process had an advocate with a position that differed from that of the placement authority and the local authority, we could ensure a check on the social work. Such advocates would know whether the child was concerned about the placement and be able to iterate those concerns to the court. I therefore support the proposal that every child should have the opportunity of independent representation. I think that that would address some of the other issues underlying our concerns.
Baroness Thomas of Walliswood: I shall, if I may, briefly support the point that has just been made. We sometimes talk about the wishes and thoughts of the child—and I was guilty of this and made the same mistake when dealing with the subject very early in our first Sitting—whereas we should be considering the effective representation of the child's interests in court. There are so many whose interests differ from those of the child.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: The debate on this group of amendments is very important. In many cases, it links to the debate that we shall have shortly on unmarried couples. I well recognise that we need to consider these matters very carefully indeed. I have listened with great interest to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, in his request that particular clauses be recommitted. He will know that that is a matter for the usual channels. I shall of course ensure that the usual channels are apprised of his wish.
As far as the noble Baroness, Lady, Blatch—who is now not in her place—is concerned, my own experience of Grand Committee—
Lord Northbourne: It might be appropriate for me to inform the Minister that the noble Baroness, Lady Blatch, told me that, unfortunately, she has to be in North London. She said that she was not walking out in high dudgeon.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: I am relieved to hear that. The general issue of Grand Committee is of course not for this Committee to discuss. We are in our fourth day of debate and it has been an extremely helpful and useful process and very stimulating.
Clause 44 amplifies the general power in Clause 9 of the Bill to make regulations in respect of the functions of adoption agencies and adoption support agencies. Subsection (1) provides that regulations under Clause 9 may make provision as to the matters to be taken into account by an adoption agency in determining or making any report in respect of the suitability of any persons to adopt a child.
Subsection (2) makes clear that the regulations may make provision to ensure that adoption agencies pay proper regard to the stability and permanence of the relationship between prospective adopters when determining their suitability to adopt. The requirements on the stability and permanence of the relationship between prospective adopters, set out in the regulations made under this clause, will apply to the assessment of both married and unmarried prospective adopters. It is on that basis that I readily
acknowledge that this is a very important part of both the Bill and, of course, of our future success—one readily hopes and expects—in improving the overall quality of the adoption service.In that context, it is entirely understandable that Members of the Committee want to flesh out as much detail as possible as to what is likely to be in the regulations. I fully understand the points that noble Lords are making. I know that there is disappointment that draft regulations are not available and I will come on to the review that we are currently undertaking in this area. In our defence, Clause 44 was introduced at a late stage of the deliberations of the Bill in another place. There simply has not been time to work up draft regulations, which is why we will issue our proposals on the fundamental review of the adopter assessment process for full public consultation later in the year.
When we come to the substantive question, which essentially is how much we put in primary or secondary legislation, we have a balance to draw. On the one hand, the more precise the primary legislation, the more inflexible it could be in practice. In making difficult judgments in relation to prospective adopters, we have to put trust in adoption agencies and the social workers and give them proper discretion. I do not believe, therefore, that it would be wise to set out in primary legislation, or even in regulations, rules so precise that people who would make good adoptive parents were ruled out because for good reasons they may not meet precisely one of the conditions in the legislation.
On the other hand, there is no doubt that all Members of the Committee want to feel assured that stability and permanence in a relationship mean just that and that as far as one can ever determine the future relationship of any couple, whether they are married or not, those making the judgment feel that the relationship is strong and will last. We all want to give security to the adopted child.
I hope that the Committee will find it helpful if I say, by way of introduction, that I will take away all the points that have been raised in this debate because I am determined to see that we get the right balance. It might also be helpful if I set out the Government's current thinking on what exactly we mean by an "enduring family relationship" and by "stability and permanence".
The concept of family life has been considered in recent case law, although with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway present it is somewhat foolhardy of me to mention case law, as I have discovered already from our earlier debate on statutory guidance.
6 p.m.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Brougham and Vaux): A Division has been called. The Committee stands adjourned until 6.10 p.m.
[The Sitting was suspended for a Division in the House from 6 to 6.10 p.m.]
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: As I was saying, the concept of family life has been considered in recent case law as including,
- "two adult lifetime partners whose relationship is long term and characterised by an emotional and financial commitment and interdependence".
We are carrying out a fundamental review of the adopter assessment process and the operation of adoption panels. This review is being taken forward in close collaboration with key stakeholders. The objective of the review is to ensure that the adopter education, training and assessment system is transparent and results in approved adopters who are empowered to meet the needs of the range of children and young people requiring adoption.
The scope of the review will include the range of criteria used for the assessment of potential adopters and the consistency of their application across the country, with a view to improving the process in the future. This will include the issue of judging stability and permanence in a relationship.
As under the present adopter assessment system, it is likely that there will be a number of ways in which adoption agencies will consider the stability of a couple's relationship. These will apply both in cases where a couple applies to adopt jointly and in cases or where an individual with a partner applies to adopt as a single person.
At present, as part of the adopter assessment process, a home study takes place over a period of several months. A designated social worker visits the prospective adopters at home in order to establish a detailed view of the prospective adopters, any family members and any other people living in their home.
A professional social worker also typically works through real-life situations with the prospective adopters in order to assess the evidence of the stability of their relationship. The prospective adopters and the social worker will discuss issues such as how they would expect to handle disagreements about the child, and how they currently handle disagreements about other family members.
In addition, adoption agencies ask for confidential personal references about prospective adopters. Personal referees are usually asked to comment on all aspects of the relationship between the prospective adopters, including the amount of time they spend together and the leisure and recreational activities they share.
My sense is that most potential adopters who go through this process find it to be a pretty tough process indeed. We have read of concerns among potential
adopters who have described the process as lengthy, often intrusive, sometimes over-intrusive, and certainly difficult.I do not comment on that. It should be a tough process, because the judgment that has to be made is an important one. But nobody should be under any misapprehension that decisions to approve prospective adopters are made in a frivolous or light-touch way. That is part of the confidence that must be given to the new system.
We then come to the question raised by the noble Earl, Lord Howe. It is: given that these regulations are so important, should they be undertaken by the affirmative rather than the negative procedure? We had a debate about this earlier, and perhaps there are further amendments to come on other regulations. In deciding on mainly negative regulation—there are three regulations that will be affirmative in this Bill—we are following current practice in relation to such legislation. As the noble Earl, Lord Howe, suggested, the Select Committee of your Lordships' House which considered the matter raised no objection.
However, I recognise the force of the argument put forward by the noble Earl. I also recognise that these are important regulations. I should tell him that I am prepared to consider this matter between now and the Report stage. The noble Earl has made an extremely important point. As I said earlier, I want to ensure that this debate about the balance between how much discretion and flexibility is allowed at local level and what precise matters should be put on the face of the Bill, or in regulations, is carefully considered. I shall be happy to engage in further discussion on that balance between the Committee and the Report stage.
However, I repeat: one has to be extremely careful not to try to define too much in legislation and then allow less discretion to the social workers and the adoption agencies, which would exclude some potentially very good people who were being considered for adoption. That is the balance and the dilemma that we face in this area, but I accept that we must give a clear view as to what we mean by a "stable and enduring relationship". It is important that the broad parameters of that are known and discussed. The consultation process later in the year will be very important in that regard. That is why I have sympathy with the noble Earl's suggestion; namely, that when regulations in this area come before your Lordships' House we ought to consider whether they should be dealt with under the affirmative resolution procedure. I am sure that the noble Earl would not take that as a precedent for any other amendments that he may table in relation to other regulations.
I turn to the very helpful amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway. I accept that he is trying to tease out some of the issues in relation to the judgments that will fall to be made as regards Clause 44 of the Bill. The noble Lord has also raised a number of important issues, such as the right of the child to be heard, the question of how we ensure that local authorities do the right thing, and how we monitor the situation. In addition, going back to our debate of a
week ago when we talked about adoption support services, the noble Lord also raised the question of what duty there is on a local authority to provide such services after the assessment.I come to the question of the voice of the child. We have of course already discussed this issue. There is no question that the Government believe that the child's wishes and feelings should actively be sought and fully taken into account. It is a key value that underpins our National Adoption Standards. In addition, Clause (1)(4)(a) of the Bill requires adoption agencies, and courts, to have regard to,
- "the child's ascertainable wishes and feelings regarding the decision",
As I explained to the Committee previously, these regulations and guidances are not available now, as we intend to consult extensively. We have already made clear that there will be explicit obligations on adoption agencies to consult the child at specified stages of the adoption process, to record their views, to ensure that their views are considered by the decision making process—for example by adoption panels—and, where they are not acted upon, to record the reasons why not.
The detail of the regulations will be subject to consultation but, as a matter of good practice, we would expect the views of the child on any suggested match with prospective adopters to be sought and taken into account in the light of the child's age and understanding. This should take place before any match between a child and a set of prospective adopters is considered by an adoption agency adoption panel and before any decision is made. We would then expect there to be several meetings between the child and the prospective adopters before the child goes to live with them. This important part of the introduction process will ensure that the proposed placement works for both the child and the prospective adopters.
The key point in relation to the procedures operated by adoption agencies is that it is the job of the child's social workers to ensure that the child's voice is heard throughout the adoption process. I referred earlier to our National Adoption Standards which make clear that every child will have his or her wishes and feelings listened to, recorded and taken into account. Professional social workers have the skills and expertise needed to ensure that their wishes and feelings are listened to and attended to.
The noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, who is not in his place, also raised a number of other questions, to which I refer briefly. He takes us back to the question of how we ensure that local authorities do
the right job. I do not want to go over all the ground that we have discussed previously, but I believe that the Government are absolutely clear that we want adoption services to work; we want to ensure that the local authorities perform effectively; that we shall performance manage; but that we have concerns about the nature of the proposals that the noble Lord put forward. If one puts on the statute the kind of duty that he wishes to see local authorities given, one runs the risk of saying not only are adoption services important but that they are of overriding importance; of more importance than many of the other provisions and functions of social services.The final point raised by the noble Lord concerns Section 7 statutory guidance. All I would say on that is that the 1996 case has since been followed in a number of other cases. There has been ample opportunity to overturn decisions or for the House of Lords to consider this and they have not done so. As far as local authorities are concerned, they know that Section 7 guidance is tough guidance. That is why I often come under pressure in your Lordships' House to issue more statutory guidance to local authorities.
In conclusion, I believe that this is an important point and I recognise the importance of these regulations. We will do as much as we can to flesh out some of the detail, though that will not be entirely easy because of the process we set ourselves in relation to working on this over the autumn and the consultation process that we have set. However, I recognise the force of the argument put forward by the noble Earl in relation to the status of the regulations, and I shall come back to noble Lords on Report on that matter.
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