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Lord Sharman: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the introduction of large denomination notes is a significant factor in the facility with which money may be laundered? What evaluation, if any, have the Government or the European Union made of the impact of the introduction of the 1,000 euro note on money laundering activities throughout Europe?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, with his great knowledge of the accountancy profession, the noble Lord has got the better of my briefing. I am more than happy to indulge in some correspondence on the issue. The noble Lord's point is relevant.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, does the noble Lord appreciate that the point made by my noble friend Lord Peyton ought to be addressed, not merely discarded as an unworthy consideration?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, of course the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, makes a point, but I would have thought that it was in society's interests generally to tackle fundamentally issues such as money laundering, not least because it is greatly associated with evils such as drug trafficking, people trafficking and terrorism.
Lord Monson: My Lords, to demand of elderly people, who may have held an account with a particular bank for more than 65 years, that they must suddenly prove their identity is often alarming and always insulting. It shows that the Government's obsession with money laundering is going over the top. Secondly, if the requirement is to be extended to everyone in the country who holds a bank or building society account, what will be done about those many people who do not possess a passport or a photographic driving licence?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I had hoped that there would be Cross Bench support for our offensive on money laundering. It is not a matter of the law being overbearing. Surely this is a major issue. In 2000-01, £19 million was recovered as a product of our efforts to tackle drug trafficking and other criminal activity. That shows the extent of the problem that we are beginning to tackle fundamentally. I hope that the Government will be widely supported on that.
Lord Saatchi: My Lords, has not my noble friend Lord Peyton touched on a point of great concern to all of us, as he so often does? Will the Minister cast his mind back to the wise advice of the noble and learned Lord the Leader of the House, who said in the second of our emergency debates on terrorism that perhaps the best way to defeat terrorism was to follow the money? The noble and learned Lord told us that the Government had frozen, I think, £63,180,000 of terrorist-related finance in UK bank accounts. Can the Minister tell us what that figure is today?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I do not have that figure at my fingertips. I am quite happy to undertake the research that the noble Lord suggests, and am more than happy to correspond with him on it.
Lord McNally: My Lords, is the Minister, like me, unsure as to where the Official Opposition are on this matter? May I assure him that we on these Benches are fully supportive of the Government's action on money laundering? Can he say whether there has been success in getting co-operation from professions other than banking, such as the accounting and the legal professions? It is quite clear that many professional advisers become involved in money laundering. Unless we all believe that it is our responsibility, the money launderers will succeed.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am drawn to supporting the noble Lord's comments. I, too, am puzzled as to where the Official Opposition are coming from on this issue. They have not been overly supportive of the Proceeds of Crime Bill. The noble Lord is also right to draw attention to the important role of other professions in this field. Of the many thousands of reports made to NCIS, only 0.35 per cent come from accountants and only 1 per cent from the legal profession. Noble Lords might be drawn to conclude that these professions could be more helpful to the police in their inquiries.
Coal Industry
2.51 p.m.
Lord Dormand of Easington asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What is their long-term policy for the coal industry, including the import of foreign coal.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Sainsbury of Turville): My Lords, the Government's long-term policy for the coal industry is being reviewed in the context of the new European coal state aid regulation. This allows countries to pay operating and investment aid. However, as with the current European rules, it prohibits state aid from allowing the price of subsidised coal to undercut international competition. As long as the competition is fair, we welcome the security and flexibility that the geopolitical diversity of coal suppliers provides.
Lord Dormand of Easington: My Lords, is my noble friend confirming that an agreement was recently reached in the European Union on state subsidies for deep-mined coal? If so, will he confirm that this country was fully involved in those talks and committed to the results? As the present aid scheme, as he knows, ran out last month, there has been urgent concern that the gap between operation of the new agreement and expiration of the old one might well lead to the closure of another six pits in this country. Will my noble friend confirm that the Government's policy is that coal will continue to play a major part in this country's energy mix, particularly as the demand for coal is now growing?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, we were very pleased to be part of reaching the agreement, on 7th June, on the new European coal state aid regime. We fought very hard to secure the flexibility to pay investment aid and I am delighted that we were successful in that regard. The new rules will come into effect immediately after expiry of the European Coal and Steel Community treaty on 23rd July. Coal will continue to play a major part in our energy policy, but on the basis of the ability to draw on coal supplies from around the world.
The Lord Bishop of Hereford: My Lords, is the Minister aware that in 2001, after decreasing for a number of years, CO2 emissions in the UK increased because power generators switched from gas to cheap imported coal? Have the Government any plans actively to dissuade the generators from using cheap imported coal—even though such plans might risk provoking the wrath of the noble Lord, Lord Peyton of Yeovil, as they would involve twisting the arm of an independent organisation? Does the Minister agree that reducing CO2 emissions must be the priority in this instance?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, reducing emissions is clearly one of the key objectives of our energy policy. One should always remember, however, that energy policy has a number of objectives: cost is one, environmental impact another, and energy security the third. Within that, we are very keen to promote the use of clean coal technology which is very relevant to this issue.
Lord Marsh: My Lords, in May 2002 alone, international coal production increased by more than 5 per cent, caused largely by the opening up of new capacity in China where wage levels are rather lower than they are in Europe. Do we really believe, as we have done in the past in other industries of this type, that there is any likelihood of reversing the trend of a steady reduction in British coal capacity?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, I think that the issue of the future of individual coal-mines ultimately has to be a matter for the owners of those mines. We can only make certain that there is a fair market internationally for British coal and that British coal is not penalised by subsidies for other countries. That is what we are concerned to do.
Lord Ezra: My Lords, following the question of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Hereford on CO2 emissions, does the Minister agree that the future of coal is closely linked with overcoming the current environmental objections to it, and that the most effective way of doing that is to develop the process of clean coal technology associated with CO2 recovery and storage? When will we have an effective demonstration plant to that effect in the United Kingdom? It would have enormous export potential.
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My Lords, the future of coal is closely linked with the question of its environmental impact. As the noble Lord will recall, we conducted a review of the possibility of a clean coal technology demonstration plant. We found that most of the available technologies have already been fully demonstrated. So there is really a very small case for a demonstration project. However, the review also concluded that there is a case for modest support for retrofitting more efficient combustion plant technology in existing power stations, particularly to help demonstrate the technology and to support exports—the point that the noble Lord raised. We are pursuing how best to take that particular project forward.
Lord Hardy of Wath: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is desirable to maintain a sufficiently large coal industry in Britain to sustain our mining engineering technology industry? It currently has a considerable international opportunity, especially given its skill in safe mining, a need demonstrated only the other day by the disaster in the Ukraine.
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