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Lord Avebury: I asked whether the Minister thought that it would be appropriate to consult the leaders of the relevant faiths—an action lacking in the past.
Lord Filkin: It is a good day for interventions. If the noble Lord had waited 15 seconds, I would have come to that point. Drawing on experience of prisons and
detention centres, a religious advisory group has been established to develop policy and offer advice. It is chaired by the director of the Immigration and Nationality Directorate and comprises eight members from various faiths—including the chaplain general of the Prison Service. As ever, we are open to further advice and views. We want to work with local religious leaders and organisations on detailed implementation, if it comes to that, at any of the specific sites. Some have already made clear their wish to be involved.The noble Countess, Lady Mar, raised a number of points about planning and infrastructure. As the noble Lord, Lord Carlisle of Bucklow, indicated, the notification will deal with each of the points raised as part of the planning process. The notification of the Throckmorton site has not yet been submitted, precisely because work on detailed points is still being done.
The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, asked about women-only provision. If strictly necessary for planning permission, such a provision will certainly be considered. If women-only provision is part of a wider question, we will consider how best to address it.
The noble Lords, Lord Avebury and Lord Greaves, asked about the status of plans. No architectural plans have been finalised but the Home Office has, through its advisers, produced a generic model as a starting point—to give some understanding of how things might be done, for discussion with potential contractors and others.
I strongly agree with the stress placed by the right reverend Prelate on spiritual care. If he feels that we ought to bear in mind further representations, we will receive them with gratitude.
The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, asked about the educational process—for example, UK norms in respect of walking through fields. We have anticipated that we will need to do some orientation on UK cultural and social norms as part of the initial purposeful activities for adults.
The debate ranged over the consultation that is right and necessary as part of a planning application. I have signalled how we will respond. It would be proper to have wider and continuing consultations in respect of any site or location if it looked as though an accommodation centre were to be built there. That is different from the planning process and involves further consultation with service providers and local communities about the construction period, developing facilities and involving the local community. The Government want those forms of wider consultation and involvement over and above and beyond the planning process. In light of that information, I hope that the noble Baroness is reassured.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns: I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate. The amendment's purpose was to obtain clarification of the rules that will govern the choice of locations. My noble friend Lord Carlisle hit the nail on the head. If proper planning processes are followed, all the right people
should be consulted. Until today, our concern was that the planning procedures had not been put on the record. I am grateful to my noble friend for the opportunity to follow that through.I thank also the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for questioning the Minister over the impression that decisions have already been made. We gained that impression after debates in another place and from conversations with outside organisations. The Minister said that the architectural information will take the form of a generic model rather than a signed, sealed and delivered final plan. That statement will reassure people living near a proposed accommodation centre.
This pump-priming debate was designed to identify which organisations ought to be on the Government's list for consultation. My noble friend Lord Renton reminded the Committee of the importance of parish councils as the starting point for local democracy. The noble Lord, Lord Chan, reminded us of the importance of consulting voluntary organisations. I was intrigued by the reference to his experience of welcoming refugees from Vietnam. In the 1970s, I worked for a while as a volunteer with the Ockenden Venture and had experience of providing the right kind of facilities in welcoming people from different communities to this country.
I am grateful to the Minister for putting on the record more clearly than before the steps that the Government are taking to stage exhibitions for the guidance of people who are likely to find themselves living near accommodation centres, so that they can ask questions and find out precisely what will be in store. We will hold the Minister to his commitments and may return at Report stage to questions about planning. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 14, as amended, agreed to.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns moved Amendment No. 101:
- After Clause 14, insert the following new clause—
The noble Baroness said: With this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 137, 127 to 131, 133 and 134 in my name and to Amendments Nos. 126, 135 and 132 in the name of the noble Lord the Minister.
I welcome the latter amendments, which reflect the Government's commitment at Second Reading to respond to the proposals made by my honourable friend Mr. Malins at Report stage in another place. I am glad that my honourable friend—who is the Member of Parliament for the constituency in which I live—was so persuasive that the Government have brought forward their own amendments.
The establishment of visiting committees—or advisory groups, as the government amendments describe them—is, I hope, an uncontroversial issue. Before I entered your Lordships' House I served as a magistrate and visited prisons occasionally, so have first-hand experience of the work done by visiting committees. I was always impressed by the high quality of their work. They have no axe to grind and talk to inmates, hear grievances and make positive suggestions. Visiting committees are an important safety valve.
I have tabled amendments to the government amendments as the basis for questions. I am intrigued by the creation of two structures to do the job of a visiting committee. It seems that there will be both an advisory committee and a person or job share person who will monitor accommodation centres. That may be a great improvement on my amendments but I need to scrutinise the Government's proposals. What is the differentiation between the advisory committee and monitor as regards their duties, powers and accountability to the Secretary of State and Parliament? It seems as the advisory committees will have no teeth. When they report to the Secretary of State, will they produce recommendations? What will the Secretary of State do with them? Will they be published? Will we be able to see them? What will be their status if they are published?
As to the monitor, what influence will he or she have in making sure that wrongs, if they exist, are put right? In particular, what role will the monitor have in regard
Subsection (2) of the new clause proposed in Amendment No. 126 states that the Secretary of State "may" by regulations confer functions on advisory groups and make provision about their constitution and proceedings. I ask the usual question: why not "shall". If "shall provide" is not in the Bill, it looks as though the Secretary of State simply will not put into effect his plans for these advisory groups.
Subsection (6) states that the Secretary of State may defray the expenses of members of the group or make facilities available to them. If the Secretary of State did not do that it would be a nonsense because no work would take place.
What is likely to be the membership of the advisory group? Will the members be representative of professional or cultural groups? What is the Government's intention on this matter? How will they go about appointing them? It is vital that people from a variety of backgrounds with a variety of experience are encouraged to become members of these advisory groups and to apply to become the monitor. The Government will not attract such people unless they can clearly see that it is a responsible, accountable and worthwhile job. Will the Minister tell the Committee how he would persuade a likely applicant that that is the case? I beg to move.
Lord Dholakia: We on this side of the House support not only the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, but a number of the suggestions in the government amendments. From my own involvement as a magistrate at one time and a member of a board of visitors, like the noble Baroness I can see that this pattern fits in with the concern that has often been expressed concerning the need for appropriate visiting committees, advisory committees or advisory groups to assist in the task faced by such accommodation centres.
Perhaps I may ask one or two questions. First, will the situation envisaged in the government amendment run somewhat parallel to the situation in prisons in the sense that the monitor's function will follow very closely that of the prisons ombudsman? I am not quite sure whether the explanation that has been offered here reflects precisely that situation.
My second point concerns the membership of the advisory group or the visiting group. There is a need to involve voluntary agencies and someone from the local area in the membership of such groups. We have heard many arguments, some of which have put forward practical suggestions, but if local people are involved in the accommodation centres through their membership of these groups it will certainly help. The involvement—we spoke earlier of consultation—of religious groups in these bodies would also be beneficial.
The suggestion for visiting committees was initially made by Sir David Ramsbotham in one of his reports after he had inspected a detention centre. We are on
"ESTABLISHMENT OF VISITING COMMITTEES AND INSPECTION ARRANGEMENTS
(1) The Secretary of State shall establish a committee (in this Part referred to as a "visiting committee") in respect of each accommodation centre established under this Part.
(2) The functions of visiting committees shall be prescribed in regulations made by the Secretary of State.
(3) Regulations made under subsection (2) shall include provision as to the following—
(a) the making of visits by members of a visiting committee to an accommodation centre,
(b) the hearing by members of a visiting committee of complaints made by persons accommodated at an accommodation centre,
(c) the making of reports by a visiting committee to the Secretary of State, and
(d) the right of each member of a visiting committee at any time to enter an accommodation centre and to have free access to every part of it and to every person accommodated or otherwise present on the premises.
(4) Regulations made under subsection (2) shall include further provision in respect of the membership of visiting committees, and in particular shall include provision as to the following—
(a) the minimum number of members of a visiting committee,
(b) the appointment of members of a visiting committee, and
(c) the appointment to each visiting committee of persons holding a particular qualification or occupying a particular position.
(5) An accommodation centre may also be inspected (and a report on the inspection made to the Secretary of State) by HM Inspectorate of Prisons and the Social Services Inspectorate whenever either thinks it appropriate.
(6) The Secretary of State shall lay before each House of Parliament an annual summary of the reports submitted to him in respect of accommodation centres by virtue of the provisions of this section.
(7) The Secretary of State may by order prescribe that other persons and bodies may have such functions in respect of the visiting and inspection of accommodation centres as may be specified in the order."
7 p.m.
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